Thread: New Land Rover Defender on cards for 2013

Originally Posted by PeterM

Realistically, to make those kinds of numbers the Defender replacement will need to be what the series one Discovery was to the brand.

The D4 is a great vehicle but just too expensive for many of us who intend on taking it bush. Taking the engineering effort that has gone into the Discovery or Rangie Sport platform and packaging it differently could make attractive dividends for the company.

The other option would be to take the new Rangie platform and base the Defender off that. It would improve the economies of scale, bring a quicker return on investment and set the Defender on the path of leap-frogging its competition in a significant way.

I would imagine that the tech package would bear a resemblance to the G-Wagon with diff locks all 'round, ABS, ESC and HDC. The driveline is likely to be the 3.0L diesel with auto as standard and I'd hazard a manual option. Petrol variants for the US and gulf states markets.

The styling of the D100 concept had me thinking that it looked like a 3 door Rangie/Disco. Perhaps that is where they may pitch the Defender? Regardless, there is a family styling trend throughout the ranges now with Defender being the odd one out.

I've read quite a few of the interviews with LR heads done over the past few years and the strategy appears to be to develop two distinct "brands": Range Rover and Land Rover.

It's been said is that they have developed a very strong luxury identity for RR with the Range Rover, Range Rover Sport, and Evoque. When you look at the lineup it does have a consistent theme and identity.

LR is less well defined with Defender, Disco and Freelander presenting a bit of a mixed message. It's a mish mash of markets and identities and not as strong as a brand as Range Rover. As PeterM says the Defender looks out of place in the current Land Rover line up.

Rumour has it that the Disco 5 will be more utilitarian than the current models, and that the Defender replacement will be positioned to tackle the hilux market. It could be that the Disco 5 is repositioned to become a competitor to the G-Wagen. There was talk of the DC100 becoming a new product line priced below the Freelander. It definitely won't be the Defender replacement.

The feeling I get is that LR will become a more distinctly workhorse and recreational brand, leaving the luxury market to Range Rover. It will be very interesting to see what they do with the Disco 5 and Defender Replacement.

So maybe this is how the lineup shape up?

Disco 5 => G-Wagen
Defender R => Amarok/HiLux
Freelander => BMW X3
DC100 => Jeep Wrangler???

If that is what pans out, then the Freelander begins looks out of place in the Land Rover lineup as it really competes in the same market space as the smaller luxury SUV's. You'd have to wonder if this doesn't hint at a small Range Rover offering that sits beneath the Evoque and takes over the market niche of the Freelander. Sub-freelander pricing on a DC100 would put it into competition with the Jeep Wrangler, which would open up a new market for Land Rover.

Time will tell.

What they should make:
- galvanised steel super strong ladder chassis
- solid beam portal axle
- improved articulation
- submersible electric hub motors on all wheels
- powered from diesel generator or battery
- solar panel inegrated roof
- integrated roll cage

- a good range of lightweight composite body options across 90/110/130 chassis platforms

- utilitarian interior as standard, luxuries optional
- even better approach and departure angles
- lower centre of gravity

- unstoppable, no contest, best 4x4xFar


What they will make:
- a luxury car with traction control and ipod connectivity.

Originally Posted by manic

What they will make:
- a luxury car with traction control and ipod connectivity.

It won't be as bad as all that. Tata seems to have given JLR a lot of input into what they produce, and I think well start to see Land Rover return to it's roots over the next few years.

The defender replacement is likely to be built on the disco 3/4 platform, so no portal solid beam axles.

Given the fact that LR have invested heavily in a production facility to build bonded and riveted aluminium monocoques, and the article suggests they will be using that facility for D.R. production it's unlikely the body will be composite.

You can't exactly complain about a riveted aluminium body on a Defender.

There is a recent post on Autocar regarding JLR looking at developing common platforms, but it seems unlikely that they would be ready for 2014: Jaguar Land Rover to share platforms | Autocar

Beginning to look like LR will outsource either the freelander or evoque to China, while Jaguar Land Rover's CEO, DR Ralph Speth , has revealed that the Range Rover & Range Rover Sport are " too complex to be built abroad".The vehicle [ or vehicles] chosen to be built in China will be built from parts made in China, according to LRM, Nov. 2012.
Article on the new L405RR is a bit of an eyeopener. The suspension uses a new aluminium hollow-cast subframe at the front & rear.The rear uses a multi link set up, while the front has double wishbones , with the bottom wishbone made of steel. All round air suspension, 260mm of movement at the front, & 310 mm at the rear, the dynamic response control module isolates the stabiliser bar, & reduces the level of roll. The L405 RR has shed 420 kgs., thanks to the use of aluminium materials & revised engines.
The new L405 has a wading depth of 900mm., using what LR are calling the Queen Mary funnels, the engine now breathes through the front shut line on the bonnet, between the bottom of the clam shell & the top of the grill.Air is then channelled through cavities in the bonnet & out to either wing where there are two 20cm funnels, sitting flush with the closed bonnet. The L405 comes with a revised engine lineup, including the 4.4 SDV8 & 5.0 litre supercharged petrol.New to the lineup is the 3.0 litre TDV6 from the D4. All engines are mated to the ZF 8HP70 gearbox. There are also plans for a hybrid electric vehicle to be launched in 2013.

The complete side panel is pressed from one piece of aluminium. Each L405 has a total of 3,722 rivets and 161 m of adhesive.

It would be easy to suggest JLR have targeted the high end of town for their new builds, what this means for the defender, which is not selling as well as the EVOQUE, who knows. The freelander is already assembled in Pune, India, & the Defender is assembled in several locations, including Kenya . Bob

Hopefully the Defender will be strongly utilitarian, able to be easily built and repaired in various low-cost locations, with several engines and the best possible safety, ergonomics and economical operation.
If they really want to topple the Hilux and get more of the three million workhorse vehicle sales worldwide they have to get it right.

Originally Posted by manic

What they should make:

What they will make:
- a luxury car with traction control and ipod connectivity.

I hope they don't forget the cup holders.

Not long ago, they did say they had five Defender prototypes they were working on, so this next one may still be a tease.

The Hilux may be a benchmark for sales, but let's hope it's not the bench mark for ability. I'd like to see the most capable off road vehicle EVER built, and in such utilitarian / practical / commercial configurations, that it will also rip sales off the Transit and Sprinter. It's got to have expedition and work bodies, so utes, buses, ambulances, vans....

Originally Posted by Michael2

I hope they don't forget the cup holders.

makes me think back to the urban myth related to lagging sales of the commodore (when replacing the Kingswood) that was attributed to a problem with the seat belt buckles and door hinges not being able to open beer bottles. When they altered the offending items cars started to sell.

woody

This surfaced last year, not sure if it is actually one of the prototypes, but closer to the deefer than the DC100