Thread: Got the Irish Inhay?

Another romanticised reminiscence of a great fighter for freedom of the people. There is no evidence at all that he was a sadistic psychopathic killer. However, there is another view of the heroic, idolised 'Che':

The most popular version of the Che T-shirt, for instance, sports the slogan “fight oppression” under his famous countenance. This is the face of the second in command, chief executioner and chief KGB liaison for a regime that jailed political prisoners at a higher rate than Stalin’s and murdered more people in its first five years in power than Hitler’s murdered in its first six.

“When you saw the beaming look on Che’s face as the victims were tied to the stake and blasted apart by the firing squad,” former Cuban political prisoner, Roberto Martin-Perez, recounted to this writer, “you saw there was something seriously, seriously wrong with Che Guevara.”

“Castro ordered mass murder,” remembers Martin-Perez, “but for him it was a utilitarian slaughter, in order to consolidate his power. A classic psychopath, the butchery didn’t seem to affect him one way or the order. But Che Guevara, as his chief executioner, obviously relished the slaughter.”

As commander of this prison/execution yard, Che often shattered the skull of the condemned man by firing the coup de grace himself. When other duties tore him away from his beloved execution yard, he consoled himself by viewing the slaughter. Che’s second-story office in La Cabana had a section of wall torn out so he could watch his firing squads at work.

One day before his death in Bolivia, Che Guevara ordered his guerrilla charges to give no quarter, to fight to their last breaths and to their last bullet. With his men doing exactly what he ordered (fighting and dying to the last bullet), a slightly wounded Che snuck away from the firefight and surrendered with fully loaded weapons while pleading to his captors: “Don’t Shoot! I’m Che. I’m worth more to you alive than dead!”

His Bolivian captors viewed the matter differently.

ugu80
I share your views the guys was a murdering sadistic SOB, but the article shows his softer perhaps "normal" side, a bloke that likes rugby and a pint.

Enigmatic character for sure. But no hero as the popular media would have many believe.

I worked in Cuba for a short while in the early 1970's, can't say I enjoyed it that much, and of course I quickly learned that there he is posted there as a popular hero!
Cheers Dennis
zedcars

No ones character and personality is black and white, we are all various shades of grey, and it all depends on the situation and circumstance too.

It also depends very much on who is recounting the tale, how they view the person being discussed, and where your biases lay as you read any recount which is why opposing views of Guevara must be viewed as cynically as the hagiographies.

Originally Posted by rick130

No ones character and personality is black and white, we are all various shades of grey, and it all depends on the situation and circumstance too.

It also depends very much on who is recounting the tale, how they view the person being discussed, and where your biases lay as you read any recount which is why opposing views of Guevara must be viewed as cynically as the hagiographies.

Brings to mind the quote, " one mans terrorist is anothers freedom fighter", not something I necessarily subscribe to, Bob

Profile of the Sociopath

Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

Incapacity for Love

Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.
Other Related Qualities:

Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
Authoritarian
Secretive
Paranoid
Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired
Conventional appearance
Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)
Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life
Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)
Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
Incapable of real human attachment to another
Unable to feel remorse or guilt
Extreme narcissism and grandiose
May state readily that their goal is to rule (or change) the world


Shoe seems to fit.

no mention from all you right wingers of the murderous corrupt regime Castro defeated and replaced.

Cuban people are definitely better off than when the dictator, mafia, and giant US corporations were plundering the country.

Originally Posted by Brian Hjelm

no mention from all you right wingers of the murderous corrupt regime Castro defeated and replaced.

Cuban people are definitely better off than when the dictator, mafia, and giant US corporations were plundering the country.

Nothing to do with right or left wing or politics I'm afraid, my point is the glorification of a man who was demonstrably a sociopathic killer. Why did he leave Cuba? To further the revolution or because Cuba was pacified and he couldn't get his rocks off anymore by killing people (note sociopathic profile for 'living life on the edge' under Need for Stimulation).

Whether the people of Cuba are better off or not is open to political debate and this website is far better off without that.

Originally Posted by Brian Hjelm

no mention from all you right wingers of the murderous corrupt regime Castro defeated and replaced.

Cuban people are definitely better off than when the dictator, mafia, and giant US corporations were plundering the country.

and was prevalent right through South America at the time.
The Americans just made and toppled regimes as they saw fit, all depending on what was in their corporate interest.

Might see if the local library has 'The Motorcycle Diaries' in stock.

Guevara has never really interested me too much, but from what I've read, this book gives an insight into what started him along the revolutionary (or terrorist, depending on your POV) path.