Stockton Beach Access Protest 2nd Feb

The 'status' of the Worimi lands is very complicated but essentially all of the said lands were granted to the Worimi Local Aboriginal Land Council in February 2007, and at the same time it was agreed that the lands would be leased, by the Worimi People, to the NPWS and jointly managed with the NPWS, creating the Worimi National Park, Worimi State Recreation Area and Worimi Regional Park. The formal details of this arrangement can be found in the Lease Agreement (see http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/re...LeaseFinal.pdf). For other detail see Worimi Conservation Lands Joint Management Agreement | NSW Environment & Heritage.

Cheers
KarlB
:)

so, the protestors that are not club members should join one, if only to give more voice to the recognised body.
why dont they create 4wda club and join the association.
people go on about not having a single body representing them when the body is there. geez if they got enough members they could probably pay a salary to at least one person to work on these goverment departments full time instead of relying on volunteers. :)

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Originally Posted by CRR88

In this whole argument we have 4wd nsw - act representing about 1% (4000 - 5000 club members) & the protestors (4000 - 5000 4wds).

The total combined is only around 2% of the 4wd community. I guess NPWS see this as two minority groups fighting each other & neither really matter as they are just small user groups.

Now if only we could get around 50% of the 4wd community to unite they could be represented by a peak body that NPWS would have to listen to.

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When you go to fight for something you need to understand how the opposition works, what their weaknesses are and play them at their own game. The amateurs running the protests at the moment will only end up get the whole lot closed. I don't think diplomacy and consultation is in their vocabulary - yes protesting is a tool but at the right time and the right place.

If you are not happy with what the 4wd association is doing - then do something about it.

Garry

Unfortunatly garry many people see the deals done by some clubs that see areas kept open but only to their club members as self serving and not in the interests of the general 4wd community just as you are saying about roothy being self promoting he may well be. I believe stockton was public land untill the native title claim was approved so there may be something in what some are cliaming as their "right" to use the land

Also from this thread it seems that talking and diplomacy has been onging for some time from both 4wd action and the association roothy claims to have contacted NPWS 6 times in the last 12 months but they only returned the contact 2 days prior to the protest I have not heard them disagree yet and the association inst telling anybody very much about what they have been doing:(

You may certainly be right but I am not sure there are many areas that only Clubs can go into (Menai may be one). Certainly locally here in the ACT/Southern NSW to only time clubs get special access is when they are doing work such as wreck recovery or repairing huts and that is only even with the approval of relevant authorities - other than that no special access.

Maybe people can put areas that are clubs only - not to cause argument but simply so we know (and so I know where I can go :o)

You are quite correct about Stockton used to be "public" land but the point is that it is now private land and the owners have every right to choose how they use it. However the whole basis of the arguments is that NPWS are going to permanently close an area on the basis that they have closed it now. All assumptions are not based on anything really - talking to the managers first would have given negotiators a very clear feel for the long term intent of NPWS and an idea what might have been the best strategy to deal with the situation. It is very hard for people to lie in face to face meetings with minutes being recorded and then circulated to all participants and then become a public document that people can be held accountable against.

I hope the protest has had a positive impact on the decision making process and that everything is opened up but I suspect at best it has no impact and at worst the owners will decide it is not worth the hassle and close areas permanently.

Garry

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Originally Posted by CRR88

In this whole argument we have 4wd nsw - act representing about 1% (4000 - 5000 club members) & the protestors (4000 - 5000 4wds).

The total combined is only around 2% of the 4wd community. I guess NPWS see this as two minority groups fighting each other & neither really matter as they are just small user groups.

Now if only we could get around 50% of the 4wd community to unite they could be represented by a peak body that NPWS would have to listen to.

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It has been reported that:

"There are 480,000 registered 4WD's that includes AWD in NSW, take out the company ones, mines, essential services, ambos, fire, police, power, telstra gas and railway, and other emergency services that will make about 350,000 remove the double bayers and those who never will go off road, realirty then brings it down to approximately 100/150000 4wder's, state wide."


4WD NSW&ACT represents over 90 clubs and some 4000 members, the largest clubs - the Toyota, Nissan, Range Rover and Suzuki and a number of other recognised formal clubs are currently not members of the Association so you could add more than another two thousand club members.

The Association runs on a shoe-string budget basically because as soon as an increase in contribution (which by the way mostly goes in insurance!) there is resistance. Fees will rise this year but have remained static for years.
If the Association had greater funds at its disposal it could employ permanent staff.

Of course the Association primarily goes in to bat for its members - but in the process the general public benefits. Governments cannot easily discriminate against the public (but witness gun ownership, historic vehicle registration and a host of other recreational activities that require some or a lot of restrictions). So, clubs say we will comply with your rules and that's the way the bureaucrats like it.

So tell me - should the Association represent those users who - tear around and go into fenced off areas? People who leave a mess? Others who wantonly damage park equipment and facilities? Assault staff? Drive off leaving fires burning?

There is only so much time available from volunteers, only so many meetings can be attended, only so many phone calls can be made, only so many submissions, reviews of Draft plans of Management and so on - no wonder it burns people out. Then to have a "show-pony"- no matter how well-intentioned create this huge demonstration that has placed another load on the Association when at this time there are quite amicable relationships with a number of land managers is quite unfortunate.

The Association and the other clubs still exist plugging away - the rally has melted away.

Maybe there is a need for more regional clubs, or for people to join a club that already exists - I don't know the answer.

Bob

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Originally Posted by Yorkie

so, the protestors that are not club members should join one, if only to give more voice to the recognised body.

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There were quite a few club members at the rally, with plenty of different club stickers on display. With the perceived inaction of the association recently (whether true or not) there are some clubs talking about leaving...

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Originally Posted by THE BOOGER

Also from this thread it seems that talking and diplomacy has been onging for some time from both 4wd action and the association roothy claims to have contacted NPWS 6 times in the last 12 months but they only returned the contact 2 days prior to the protest I have not heard them disagree yet and the association inst telling anybody very much about what they have been doing:(

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Would NPWS have listened to some bearded guy in a LandCruiser before the show of numbers? Maybe if they didn't want to listen to him before the rally they won't be so quick to ignore him next time? Time will tell...

Just by way of interest - there have been 98 posts so far on this thread. On the Association forum there have been 158 posts on the closure of areas at Stockton thread but the majority have been since the rally was announced. All the sentiments expressed here are being discussed there.

Tomorrow there will be a Quarterly Meeting of the Association and it will be adressed by two NPWS senior staff members on the current situation at Stockton and the progress of the Plan of Management. When there is some news it will be communicated to the clubs and if some of the suggestions about wider communication are adopted then it will no doubt the subject of a Press Release from the Asssociation.

By the way the NPWS, etc listen to lots of bearded guys;):D

Bob

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Originally Posted by bobslandies

Tomorrow there will be a Quarterly Meeting of the Association and it will be adressed by two NPWS senior staff members on the current situation at Stockton and the progress of the Plan of Management.

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Bob, I know obviously most cannot attend these meetings however where is it held ?? ie Is it Sydney ?

More so have any of these people actually been to Stockton of late ? To actually know what is being said or are they just going off reports ?

The Association might earn some karma points if they chose to announce any outcomes about Stockton, we will see or read...

Dazza

[QUOTE=O-D;1853721]There were quite a few club members at the rally, with plenty of different club stickers on display. With the perceived inaction of the association recently (whether true or not) there are some clubs talking about leaving...

Despite Roothy's allegations that the Association banned club members from attending this was not the case. Don't believe everything on Facebook (except of course the Association's page: https://www.facebook.com/4wdnow. - thanks Miraz, post 101)

The Association is always being accused of something. When the first 4WD Show was mooted certain magazines tried to gazump the venue. Members of some clubs were vocal that the Association should not get involved in commercial ventures. Before anyone goes on about the loss incurred in the first Show that has been turned around and the last two 4WD&Adventure Shows are now run by an experienced show management company. The 2012 show only ran for two days (not three) because of bad weather - the number of patrons was over 16,000. These are the people that the Association believes that it represents.

Also, clubs have been leaving and threatening to leave the Association for various reasons over many years - happens in an organisation particularly when there may be conflicts of personalities or policy or vested interests.

Bob