Stockton Beach Access Protest 2nd Feb

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Originally Posted by O-D

Garry, so what is the correct process for a non-club 4x4er to oppose track closures? Is it when a draft management plan is released for each area? Does a draft management plan have to be produced before any track can be closed? I don't know much about draft management plans but from what I've heard if enough people oppose it then it can't go ahead? Is there any truth to this or can NPWS still erect a big dirty gate there anyway?

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During the consultation phase, you can contact any of the groups that are part of the consultative committees to express your point of view.

The draft plan will be put on public display for 90 days, during which time it is open for public comment - anybody can lodge a submission during this time. The plan for Stockton will probably go on display around June.

The plan of management defines what activities will be permitted within a National Park....if it isn't on the plan, then the activity is not permitted. In the absence of a plan, then there is no obligation on NPWS to provide access of any kind.

The discussion is not so much about preventing track closures, as presenting arguments for tracks to be open to the public.

Land Management discussions are always a compromise between the different stake holder groups that are involved....much of the time the key to getting a good outcome is removing the objections that other stakeholders have to your activities. The risk with a protest based approach is that you lose the support of the other groups at the table, and end up with much less access.

CRR88 - this would be the same NRMA and RACQ that are running initiatives that aim to make mud tyres and bull bars illegal?

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Originally Posted by bobslandies

Can you provide any examples to back up this hypothesis? Looks like another way-out theory - you don't for a minute believe they are that clever do you?

Anyone up to anything wants their graft, payback, cut of the action as soon as possible - they are not waiting a generation.

Witness the last few weeks ICAC hearings.

Bob

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How's Menai look bob?
How about CSG exploration in areas of yalwal that have been blocked for 4x4 for 5+ years? Field off on ‘frack’ finding tour « Shoalhaven Greens

Of the 127 nsw state conservation areas 99 have mining or exploration titles in them :eek: http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/re...6SCAreview.pdf

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Originally Posted by Miraz

The draft plan will be put on public display for 90 days, during which time it is open for public comment - anybody can lodge a submission during this time. The plan for Stockton will probably go on display around June.

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Thanks Miraz. What happens with the submissions received? Are they taken seriously enough to get the draft plan changed after the 90 days?

Miraz your name isn't Geoff is it??

They are taken seriously, provided you have a reasonable argument and can justify your position - hence the need to do your research thoroughly first.

I'm going to dig out the submission that we made to the Watagan's plan back in 2008 and post it up on the association website and facebook page, so that you can see what aspects were incorporated into the plan.

It's important to remember several things:-
1. Budgets are limited, so if you ask for something that will cost a significant amount of money to implement then it's not likely to get very far.
2. There is a legal framework that sets out the priorities for NPWS, if you ask for something that conflicts with this, then your chance of success is low.
3. Don't ask for something that is outside of the scope of the Park - for instance at Stockton, much of the high dune area and mining operations are outside of the Park boundary - so there is little point in having a go at NPWS about issues outside their control.
4. Consider the evidence and research that has been done - if you ask for something that conflicts with the evidence that is on the table, then you need to be able to strongly support your argument with alternative evidence or research.

If you want to get involved, then even if you are not a club member then I would suggest trying to contact the club/assoc members that have been involved and offering to help.

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Originally Posted by dullbird

Miraz your name isn't Geoff is it??

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Hi Lou - we are long overdue for a catchup aren't we? :D

I'm considering replacing the Pajero with a Disco at some time this year, but I also have a little Jeep for the more challenging stuff since the last time we met. - [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSWb1w-AuPg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSWb1w-AuPg[/ame]

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Originally Posted by frantic

How's Menai look bob?
How about CSG exploration in areas of yalwal that have been blocked for 4x4 for 5+ years? Field off on ‘frack’ finding tour « Shoalhaven Greens

Of the 127 nsw state conservation areas 99 have mining or exploration titles in them :eek: http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/re...6SCAreview.pdf

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As I said - back to the ICAC. Somehow the regulators get scammed by persons with inside information. Or, they are paid off. Or, they write the rules for a mate. There are hundreds of examples of this. Generally, it's not one big crime - it's a lot of different sized crimes.

Any two-dollar outfit can get exploration go-ahead. Ask any farmer, private property is not immune to this either, so it's rife.

I am not disagreeing with you but let's try and keep this thread on the topic.

Bob

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Originally Posted by Miraz

Hi Lou - we are long overdue for a catchup aren't we? :D

I'm considering replacing the Pajero with a Disco at some time this year, but I also have a little Jeep for the more challenging stuff since the last time we met. - Wheeny Creek - YouTube

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I knew it!!!

I just thought I'm sure I know the name Miraz from somewhere!:D

should of brought the Jeep out with us yesterday down to Yalwal.

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Originally Posted by bobslandies

As I said - back to the ICAC. Somehow the regulators get scammed by persons with inside information. Or, they are paid off. Or, they write the rules for a mate. There are hundreds of examples of this. Generally, it's not one big crime - it's a lot of different sized crimes.

Any two-dollar outfit can get exploration go-ahead. Ask any farmer, private property is not immune to this either, so it's rife.

I am not disagreeing with you but let's try and keep this thread on the topic.

Bob

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It's not scamming, it's accountants planning, and it is on topic of lockouts.

Put it simply mineral A is in a state CONservation area and would cost $xx/unit to mine which is at or higher than the current market rate. But projections show that within 10 years the mineral A will be far more expensive so the profitability of that extraction would increase. A perfect example is shale oil, we shut it down based on costs in the blue mt.'s. the U.S plan is to increase production of shale oil and become a net exporter by 2030. How long till the blue mt.'s become economically viable again? Shale to drive oil production in US to new high by 2014 — RT

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Originally Posted by dullbird

Should of brought the Jeep out with us yesterday down to Yalwal.

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I wish - the assoc quarterly meeting was in Wollongong yesterday, so I lost a day of good wheeling time.

Contemplating heading towards Lithgow this afternoon to recover a Pajero that drove off the edge of a track near Hampton yesterday without a driver and is currently lying on it's side about two hundred meters down the hill.