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Well, I have had the pleasure of last week travelling a couple of hundred kilometres in a new 2013 Defender, 2.2 TCDi and drove about 100+ of that country/suburban and believe me it was anything but slow, noisy, leaky,(yes it rained) and the stereo was quite enjoyable complete with CD player and USB port, the 6 speed gearbox is a dream,the ABS works well,and it handles and corners without body roll,and 120 kph comes up at 2400rpm in 6th.
Re-read roverrescue's post no.43,as an Ambulance officer who's attended many crash's his post is spot on,also there's no difference between a three star and five star vehicle in a crash but if it makes you feel better having 5 stars all the power to you,it's your money,your vehicle and your family. PatQuote:
Originally Posted by gusthedog
I spend a day at work and not on here and look what happens! All you kids start bashing each other ...;)
Ok I'll try and summarise what has been written so far;
The pros of owning a Defender as covered by the Defender camp.
1. defenders are better off road and less prone to panel damage than a D3 ...for some unexplained reason.
2. Defenders owners think all (bar Gordon) Disco owners are scared of getting scratches on their Disco's so they never go in the really rough stuff, so that means their Defenders must be better.
3. Defenders are safer than motorbikes in an accident
4. Many Defender owners think Ancap ratings mean very little.
5. Defender owners think their vehicles are safe because they have a sturdy chassis and air bags are over rated.
6. Many Defender owners think this whole safety angle of it being better to protect your families in a modern 5 star Ancap rated vehicle is basically just a sales pitch.
7. Defenders are better because chicks like them.
8. defenders can hit lots of wild life when they have bull bars fitted with little damage ...Funny thing is the same thing happens in a Disco when a bull bar is fitted ...but what the heck.
The pros as presented by Disco owners on this occasion why D3/4's etc are better;
1. Various reasons from their excellent off road ability and on road comfort, though most posts being based on safety.
Truth is I'm to tired at this late hour to go into all the reasons a late model Disco is in my opinion a better all round vehicle. If you owned one then you would know why.
Still while both are good off road and have their own strengths and weaknesses. I must admit it's hard to go past the safety point that keeps being raised and many Defender owners keep scoffing at.
Below is a link to an accident that happened is SA when a drunk driver in a Audi driving at over 200 kph crossed a highway and hit a family of four head on in their Disco 3 doing about 100 kph in the opposite direction. This thread created lots of discussion at the time in the D3/4 section.
Anyway go have a look at the many pics taken by one of the forums members called Koos Best, who also owns a D3, then judge for yourself whether you would rather be in (and have your family in) a Disco 3/4 or your Defender in a similar situation.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/...-africa-4.html
One other point, someone commented that they didn't understand why a D3/4 is over a ton heavier than their Defender?
The answer is simple while your Defender may have a sturdy chassis, a Disco 3/4 also has a sturdy chassis and a full monocoque body, which basically means it has the best of both worlds in modern vehicle design when it comes to strength and safety, however this over engineering makes them heavy.
That is how a Disco 3/4 can have the body, from bumper to bumper, lifted off the chassis and it doesn't break in two or have the doors jam. Try lifting the body off of your Defender in one piece and see what happens.
It is rumoured the next Defender will be based on the T5 platform (same as the D3/4) if it is then new Defender owners will not only have a great vehicle off road but a much safer one on road.
cheers,
Terry
I reckon Defenders are really lousy to drive....yet other people really enjoy driving them. Some people like tea and others prefer coffee. When we say the reason we don't like something, it shouldn't be taken as an insult to those who do like it. I really like Lara Croft's Defender and wish that I actually liked driving it, but I don't. Disco's are a lovely drive really, but so so in the looks department and way too expensive. Will somebody please make a Defender that is comfortable to sit in and drives even a little like a Disco (6 speed tiptronic please)? Jeep have done it with a Wrangler. I test drove a Defender then a Wrangler back to back. The Jeep was so much more pleasant to drive. A Defender could be too in my opinion. But then we risk spoiling Defenders for those who like them now, and that's like the traditional Coke new Coke argument all over again.
As for off road, nobody is going to question a Defender. The Disco's are pretty awesome as well in my opinion but who wants to dent or scratch such an expensive car?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ad8dHYAIhZ4]Fifth Gear: 4x4 Crash Test - YouTube[/ame]
(theres a 90 lined up in the background , cant find the test video of that tho )
I trust 5th gear videos soo little I'd expect them to saw up the chassis to get the result they wanted.Quote:
Originally Posted by goingbush
Other videos include tyre safety where they deliberately throw a car to break traction and try to edit that out of the shot and crash tests where cars had no engines.
Terry
thanks for your summary - I think you missed that chicks dig defenders :)
It is interesting to note that an Audi A4 also has a lovely 5 star rating - what if the family of four was in the audi doing 100 and the disco was the drunk flying missile -
That sort of accident was horrific and a lesson in physics - and for once life was fair and the "innocent" family were spared while the "guilty" speeding drunk driver not??? If the table were turned which so happens in life how would you feel about the whole thing?
That sort of accident you cannot truly factor in a safety buying decision - well you can emotionally but you cant logically - it is an outlier
The data on defenders being safe vehicles was averaged over real world conditions and real world crashes that happen everyday - not the outliers
No one in their right mind could possibly assume a defender would be 'safe' in a head on at combined speeds approaching 200+km/h but those type of accidents are thankfully exceedingly rare - and choosing a vehicle that has the majic 5 numbers on the chance you will be in one of those accidents is not logical - and if you were in such an accident it is NO guarantee of survival either (Audi A4 driver point in case)
In honesty it comes down to a decision that each person makes for themselves
But in a funny way that decision is always made in a way that we have the landy of our choice and then we justify its existence in our lives
Peace
S
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerryO
Hahahaha, very selective Terry and I like the twists on the conclusions, but why keep trying so hard to justify your purchase decision ?
What is it that drives you to continually show that a Disco3, the car you purchased is 'better' than a Defender ?
Hmm....
Post # 34.
There endeth the lesson :pQuote:
At the end of the day a 110/130 is a work/commercial biased vehicle, it's built with a massive box section chassis, springs biased towards load carrying and fitted with Light Truck construction tyres. It's built to work.
A Disco is a family wagon with a distinct on road orientation that is very capable off road.
I'm not really sure why this is so hard to grasp ?
[snip]
Stick her in a tidy Defer and she'll love it... Been there done that!Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveB
Now it's me that wants rid of the Defer for a D4... I'm just not sure I could bring myself to look at the scratches that would inevitably end up on that shiny new paintwork:( so for now the Defer & I remain an item!
Sent using Forum Runner
I think Ill leave the logic to Rick - his at least makes sense
Ill tell you what Terry - when a D7 or whatever can carry two 44s of bang in the back - 200L of water - gear for a fortnight and a pack of hounds well maybe Ill look at downgrading ;)
S