license to handle R22a refrigerant gas ?

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Originally Posted by zedcars

Rick
Good post and I enjoyed reading your submission.

Yes those PAGS are very hydroscopic and this was emphasized during a course I took when they first came out for 134a applications. Even in our Coloradan high plains desert atmosphere with about 22% humidity the stuff shows a quick deterioration if left open to the air. My shop blokes think I am being a tiresome old Limey "-----" well you know! Demanding all open pipes/ports be plugged during major vehicle repairs when the A/C has to be disconnected/opened up. Plus using protective eye wear.:(

[snip]
Cheers Dennis

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Dennis, when I worked as a race car mechanic I'd insist on everything being plugged as soon as it was undone.
I couldn't stand to see an oil line or cylinder head left open, even when we were rushing at the track. :angel:
I had plastic plugs for ports and lines, and copious amounts of tape if we didn't have the right plug.

When I was assembling engines for a race engine builder he reckoned he used me as I knew what clean was, I was worse than he was cleaning down a block after it came back from the machine shop, or just prepping anything before assembly, I'd do several trial assemblies, etc, and he'd had a number of qualified motor mechanics work for him that he'd let go.
We both reckoned it wasn't a training thing though, it was a personality thing.
I'm a little anal/OCD :D

The funny thing is I'm the messiest bastard on earth everywhere else in my life :(

In reply to comments regarding the quality of (all) tradespersons; I hate to say it but there are 3 basic points that have caused this
1 the governments have slowly been reducing funding in real terms for years
2 apprentice wages are so low few want to do the hard trades
3 trainer wages are so low I have gone back to industry after 17 years training.

All adds up to a mess; our trade is also being nibbled at by both the electrical trade and the plumbing trade, auto mechanics have already taken the transport side from us, add the proliferation of split system A/C's and we have a real problem on our hands. :(

Rick
Again I think that old fashioned experience or nouse as I mentioned has to play its part in some circumstances.

One of the strings to our bow is the install of APU's to big trucks. Some are completely stand alone hanging on the frame using commercial refrigeration systems like R22, others are interfaced with the truck's mobile R134a standard factory install.

Basically shut the truck down and the big engine, fire up the little Kubota powered APU on the frame and a similar Sanden compressor is feeding refrigerant to the interfaced systems in the cab and sleeper.

Unlike "Down Under" and 4.2 mtr lengths where there's lots of cab overs, the majority of trucks in the USA are conventional s , so there is usually a choice of free frame rail space. Depending up customer selection and pipe/hose runs, there can be a considerable variation on total "New" refrigerant charge for maximized cooling efficiency.

The factory supplier of one particular APU always spec'd a 2.5 extra lbs as across the board extra charge. In some cases this was found to be an overcharge on some chassis applications and undercharge in others.

Post conversion O/O complaints of poor cooling efficiency and gripes "Like this truck always cooled down the 38 DGF!! Now it crap at 48 to 50 dgf!!!! were often the norm.

As you mentioned by using the gauges intelligently observing the rate of pull down and low side readings the system could be fine tuned to give its maximum.

FOT systems I find are the worst for this, and due to low humidity in our area, some blokes would complain of poor cooling in very humid conditions like driving down into Florida delivering stuff.

I can't help think back to my apprenticeship in England where we fixed A/C systems in Lux cars, Buses and Trains. The master mechanic was an ex Merchant navy refrigeration rating. With a supposed woman in every port he would often say that AC systems are like women.
Quote on A/C diagnosis I have never forgotten!

" Lad you need to feel 'em up until they get sweating. Fat ones are the coolest like the pipes on the low side 'cos they need loving, but them thar hot skinney women can burn yah so be careful when you touches 'em see!:o:D

Cheers Dennis

The funny thing is I'm the messiest bastard on earth everywhere else in my life :([/QUOTE]

Rick
Yes you should see my desk, papers, drawing, loose parts; customers often say you are either very disorganized or a genius! I prefer the latter!:twisted:
Cheers Dennis

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Originally Posted by rick130

We actually used to reckon that someone that did their time on commercial refrig could work on anything, but it didn't appear that an a/c bloke could go the other way.
Or is that being biased ? :angel:

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On the older generation auto stuff Id agree, this new stuff tho.....

30000 million different heated this cooled that and computer control systems.

at least I can still tell my customers the factory 240 aircon works juuust fine.

Dave, it's like I was saying to you the other week the way Arctick has set up the liscencing regs they have made it illeagal for me to work on my D1 or my 93 Mazda bravo, now to put that in context, I was trained through my apprenticeship to work on the following, Domestic A/C, Domestic Refrigerators, Beer reticulation (service and install), commercial refrig, all that with Burns Philp.... later in my apprenticeship, I was with a Carrier Transicold agent, Thermo king service....Central Plant chillers and DX systems, brisbane markets Amonia systems, this same company designed and built there own transport systems for Peters and Pauls ice Creams, we also had a rebuild service for York automotive compressors I had been trianed at bith these companies to work on and understand ALL facets of the industry no matter what part it was, I am lucky to have worked at these companies to be honest.......... my main point in an earlier post was that the term "Fridgy" meant that it didnt matter what Refrigerant it used , what temps it ran at we worked on it, from Central Plants, QBB milk vats, RAC's, etc tec we of the "Old Ilk" are now dealing with the issues as BLITZ has so well written in his postand it's been allowed to happen by our governing body to a degree we as well............ I am ranting again so will go have a cup of tea....... I love this bloody industry and am saddend to see the way it's gone

ITs dumber than you know...

we've got a local guy I sometimes go and help out, qualified fridgey but cant work on cars, can buy gas.

I goto his place, take my gauges use his gas and vac gear and do the auto job for him. 90% of the time all he needs me for is so he can put on the books that yes, he had someone with an auto ac cert say "yep, done just right" and do on a car what he's been doing for 30 odd years anyway.

I know what youre saying Dave......... Apoligies to the originator of this thread we have drifted off topic quite a bit, but I think you may get the impression that you should calla Qualified Fridgy to look after your repair...........On a lighter note I reckon we are building a good case for another soap box style forum

I've always wanted to explain it this way to the people who design the trade alingments.

you guys work on making sure your fridgey stuff stays out of cars and well work on keeping our cars out of your fridges.

Geez this thread is bouncing along,soon it will be bigger than the stars thread:D:o

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Originally Posted by rick130

We actually used to reckon that someone that did their time on commercial refrig could work on anything, but it didn't appear that an a/c bloke could go the other way.
Or is that being biased ? :angel:

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Same today,what is missing is many 'fan mechanics' have absolutely no idea of the basics of refrigeration.A good commercial refrigeration mechanic knows exactly how refrigeration works and how to apply this to A/C if needed.

i was lucky enough to be have been trained in all areas of the trade,except transport refrigeration,and ammonia gear.One day we would be working on an Orford or Ellaby cabinet,cold or freezer room,next day it would be cleaning condenser tubes or replacing a bursting disc(good old R11) on a centrif.Next day water balancing,maybe doing a shaft seal on a 5H120,fixing an RAC,bla bla,etc,etc.
We got good training in many different areas of the industry.This is the basic training all apprentices in this trade need.

Sure, techs do specialise in some areas,but to start with they need the basic refrigeration training.

These days there are very few companies that train techs in all areas of the industry.This,i believe is a major issue.


Fault finding,particularly electrical is also extremely important.

Work ethic is also a major thing as well,guys just want to do it the easy way,sneak home early,etc..

Having been an owner operator in this industry for 21 yrs or so,i have always tried my utmost to make sure our apprentices were trained in as many areas of the trade as possible.

Oh,and for what they learn at college,now don't get me started....grrrrrrr