license to handle R22a refrigerant gas ?

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Originally Posted by blitz

very true Brian - the face of all trades / industries are constantly evolving, particularly with the advent of emerging technologies

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Yes, and with new products such as domestic air conditioners becoming affordable. The fridgies seem reluctant to accept that a trade that once was their exclusive province is now divided into at least three segments. commercial/industrial, automotive, cottage (domestic/residential).

Plumbers, electricians, and carpenters often have not done much work other than in a particular segment of their trade. Many have done little other than new cottage work and are lost on a commercial/industrial job. I know fitter-machinists who are now the senior tradesmen who have never worked in a manual control traditional machine shop, only CNC shops where they have become machine programmers and tool setters. Take them to a 20' planer and a 12 ton casting and they don't know what to do.

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Originally Posted by Dougal

I was staying at a mates place when the "installer" came around to replace his not-working heat-pump.
He came in, clicked it on to cool and waited while it did nothing. Then pronounced it broken.
I asked him if if had simply leaked out the gas, his reply "nah, they don't need gas to cool, only to heat".
:eek:

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Faaaark.

A customer had a cheap Chinese split in their little take-away food shop and it wasn't heating.
They'd had another company look at it (the building owner called them) and two young blokes had spent two hours on it and couldn't nut it.
They said they'd need a new one.
It was running but no fan in the head unit and icing up the inside coil (every fridgy on here's little brain will be going 'ding ding ding ding')

I walked outside, undid the unit top cover, slipped the leads off the reversing valve coil and metered it.
Yes, it was open circuit (burnt out)

It doesn't get any more basic than that. :(

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Originally Posted by blitz

[snip]

I believe but am not 100% sure that AIRAH is involved but they are about engineers not the trades

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Not 100% sure, which is why I asked earlier on, but I believe AIRAH was either taken instead of, or pushed out, industry groups like RACCA.

Even the bloody external testing for an ARTick license for 'experienced persons' is done through AIRAH. WTF ?
AIRAH never had any interest at a spanner and gauges level in the past.

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Originally Posted by rick130

Faaaark.

A customer had a cheap Chinese split in their little take-away food shop and it wasn't heating.
They'd had another company look at it (the building owner called them) and two young blokes had spent two hours on it and couldn't nut it.
They said they'd need a new one.
It was running but no fan in the head unit and icing up the inside coil (every fridgy on here's little brain will be going 'ding ding ding ding')

I walked outside, undid the unit top cover, slipped the leads off the reversing valve coil and metered it.
Yes, it was open circuit (burnt out)

It doesn't get any more basic than that. :(

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Somehow in my country a lot of sparkies are getting allowed to do refrigeration work, including heat pump installs.

Most seem to get through okay. But the wifes old work (Pike River, yes, that Pike River) had office air-con units with pipes that weren't clean. I don't know exactly what debris was in them, but they spent more time down for repairs than up and working. In winter she took all the electric fan heaters to work.

When the ARC artick bs kicked off they gave out full RAC to anyone who could prove trade exp for 7 years! How many so called licenced fridgies are out there you didnt do an apprenticeship? Try get an electrical, plumbing or builders licence without carring out a full apprenticeship, no chance even 20 years ago!
If I had my time over again I would be done a proper licenced trade and not be competing for work with split bashers and idiots.

NSW gave out "grandfather" licences to the motor trades when NSW first issued trade licences a fair while ago. If you had proven complaints against you, then you didn't get one. You had to prove so many years experience. Smarties, when asked for their trade papers on applying for a job, would produce the licence. They thought I was a bit picky when I said "No, I want to see trade papers, and not tradesman's rights certificates either."

Queensland, until about 1970, did not have motor dealer licences. You could just set up shop and sell cars. Many did, including myself. When dealer licensing was introduced, "grandfather" licences were granted to persons of good character (no convictions) who could show so much industry time as a dealer. No need to show having premises approved by your local council, so backyard fleas got licences. Police checks were either sloppy or flexible as I know of two prominent industry patriarchs nowadays who had felony convictions (stealing as a servant, armed robbery) but got licences. After a period of grace normal licencing requirements were applied.

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Originally Posted by Brian Hjelm

Dave, ever since someone in the 19th. Century thought up the terms tradesman and/or journeyman trades have been arising, evolving, disappearing. New industries appear, old ones disappear. New machines and technology negate entire occupations.

How many millwrights, watchmakers, loom tuners do you know still working at their trade? Whole blocks of trades disappeared from the printing industry in a few short years from new technology. How many of today's smash repairers could make a guard, door skin, turret from scratch. This was once routine. Likewise today's motor mechanics aren't trained in the skills of pre-1950 motor engineers who did things like make chassis rails, crankshafts and con-rods, line bored bearings, cut gears, set up and lapped diffs.

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yeah but lets be reasonable....

just because you specialise in one subsystem of a vehicle doesnt mean you should be totally oblivious to everything that isnt in your world.... It hasnt happened yet (in australia) but as a "reasonable hypothetical example" imagine taking a td5 auto into a mechanics shop to be told that theres nothing wrong with the Auto after having spent a decent wad of readies on a diagnostics check to be further told that "the autos not getting the right info from the computer, take it to the computer guy" spending a wad of readies on the computer guy to be told "computer says the mafs buggered, sorry mate, cant change that for you its attached to the engine and you need an engine specialist"

I started my mechanics trade in 1982.4 years.NSW.
automotive engineer cert II.
I written this down as a coment--as i read similar opinion into this thread.

my grandfather had british marine first engineer ticket-died in the 70's-his father a captain with similar qualifications.grand father refused to except quaifications obtained during the 40's of those under his direction,and I often hear this uterance from each retiring heavy industry skilled worker or managment engineer around newcastle.

I went to tafe and learned minimum skills that would allow me to do this trade without stepping into a workshop.I had worked on the farm that taught mechanical issues then in a dealer that taught time managment skills..then after the 3 years I sat for the NSW MVRIC lience exam that any other group could sit that had applied for a 7 year provisional liecence.my boss was a metal worker.

but then i worked for the extra year[4] to gain my proficency certificate---the only qualification Ive ever needed to produce in 28yrs.

In those days A/C was auto electrician trade not covered at tafe.unless you did refridgeration-my grand father's specialty.Ice works and power stations when not at sea.

The R12 clamp down in the mid 80's handling liences was handed out to anyone that turned up and asked for it.GRAND FATHER.I missed out as it was my day off and more than half the workshop had these.they had sent the older tradies to a cource and all failed so they scrapped the course.

20 years of employment an some .... decides i must pay for the right to work and need a photo to proove i know how ...... authorities again hand out several systems of regs and liences that fail and fedral labour get the snout in the trough and create havic[artic]as he can work out fluffy bats he can work out who to get liences or how to issue these.

several trader companies issue qualifications to customers but dont register the training---but as the system would colapse these certificates are still in play.

I waited untill the system is finalised and attended an organisation that assessed my trade skills and work history evidence.this organisation has issued papers to confirm that I have cert II air conditioning standard[note its not refridgeration like if i attended TAFE].due to GRAND FATHER.they issued me with a restriced lience-but if i pay more they will change it.--i cancelled my lience as i cant justify the cost and they still send me crap--and over due payment.they have now changed the system and a person under supervision also needs a lience.
CLEVA COUNTRY

now I read bellow that some here require trade certificates.
that works in some trades but not in automotive industry.
my last aprentice didnt learn from 25 year old tafe system and it all comes across as who can sign of the most to keep up with demand.
paper trails.
I been listed now by my government employer as a heavy vehicle plant mechanic and assesed as one.NOW DONT YOU WORRY ABOUT THAT.

I like to coment on the electrical trade industry--not the trades people.
but this system is completely failed.I have a cousin assistant dean engineering that i respect-- he tells me the system crap but needed due to due process.NOTE If someone stuffs up then a paper trail crucify anyone without a QC or an expired first aid ticket.
watch the VIC class action trial.

I dont come across dodgey tradesmen as I have several family members that are at high skilled to university levels to get free work from.
but often I hear off dodgey skilled workers that end up working for householders and small buisnesses.
medium to large industries suck up all the skilled [with papers] workers to cover their ....leaving all else to get what they can.cost my employer dollars to train me to check power leads and buy easy to use gear---but i cant use it as it takes local work off local buisnesses.

P/S our new bridge carpenter doesnt attend tafe-he does 7hrs a fortnight doing online,no face to face forever,his superviser signs him off.
similar to my mechanic aprentice.

These twits at Arctick dont give a flying toss. I got audited a few weeks ago and the "inspector" wasnt even interested in checking paperwork,vac pump or recovery unit. All he was interested in was checking out a new leak detector I had and who I knew in the trade that he knew from way back. He was in and out in about 15mins. They have given a licence to any moron that knows how to fit a gauge manifold set in a classroom and let them loose on an unsuspecting public:mad:, they stuff it up when they get the job at 1/2 the price a fridgy quotes and then wont go back and fix it when they have gas leaks. I had one twit call me and say "I hooked up the pipes and fitted the vac pump, I then opened the little valve and gas came out of the vac pump, so then I shut the valve off and started the vac pump again and opened the big valve and gas came out of the pump again, what am I doing wrong?" "No **** Sherlock, I replied, call a fridgy and go back to cable jerking you idiot" then I hung up. Needless to say, he no longer talks to me. It's idiots like that, that give our industry a bad name. Try getting qualifications in another industry without doing years of trade courses.

Hmmm, this thread is certainly generating a bit of heat...

- Methinks we need an A/C installed... - That means a 'Fridgy to plumb/commission it and a house-basher to run the suitable cabling.....:p:p:p