whats the world coming to
plenty of "Taboo's" I'd indulge in before makeup
hell I wont even wear sunscreen, you'll never see me in a D3/4 , but paradoxically I would buy a FJ Cruiser if you could get a Diesel / Manual.
Makeup for Men is On The Rise
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whats the world coming to
plenty of "Taboo's" I'd indulge in before makeup
hell I wont even wear sunscreen, you'll never see me in a D3/4 , but paradoxically I would buy a FJ Cruiser if you could get a Diesel / Manual.
Makeup for Men is On The Rise
Yeah...
I'm into Old Spice and Brut 33...
None of this here modern Poof stuff.
I shower with cold water and shave with my hunting knife...
Throw on the flanny shirt and then a big old dash of the spice.
Chicks down the bingo parlour just go crazy for that ****!
;)
Progress is a good thing and there is no doubt that many modern vehicles are better in a multitude of ways when compared to a defender. New vehicles are safer, easy to drive, mostly comfortable and perform their intended function efficiently.
But modern efficiency doesn't excite me.
I sold a modern 4wd to buy my 300tdi defender. Not because I think it is more capable but because I wanted to drive again. I get to drive most of the new vehicles on the market, incl the D4 and I can tell you the modern vehicle is pretty impressive on lots of levels but they are also amazingly bland to operate and own.
You don't drive them anymore and there is no adventure left behind the wheel. In lots of ways they are all the same and feel the same. This is something that a collegue also struggles with and he also prefers an older vehicle for his daily drive.
I've been on the new car treadmill as well. Buy one, think its the best thing for a year or three and then trade on the next best thing to come along. In reality I was bored and missing a car that needed to be driven.
The defender is the only vehicle I've owned for many years that is a real driving experience. Yes it's underpowered, yes its noisy, yes it's slow but it needs me to drive it, it's involving and every drive puts a smile on my face. And honestly, I just love the way it looks and feels. No other 4wd is as character laden as the defender.
I dont care what LR do with the next Defender. If there Is a new one, it will be modern and competant, that's just the modern reality. I might even buy one for my wife and trade it a few years later as you do. It will be the keys to the 19 year old defender that will hold the most appeal.
An honest and emotive response.
I think you sum it up nicely.
I always enjoyed the Defender, I really love the D4 - often putting 8-10 hours a day in the hot seat.. Not unknown to do round trips to collect something then head straight home...
For my "fix" it's 2 wheels - that's the head clearer.
For long term calm and state of Mind, a trip in either of my LR is the key!!!!
I completely understand that. I had a D4 for a week and it's a hell of a machine. If you do a lot of driving on a daily basis there isn't much out there that can compete with it when it comes to eating up the miles. The Defender is so far removed from what the D4 is that's it not even a sensible comparison in that regard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombie
Thankfully, I don't have to drive much on a daily basis nor very far when I do, so the Defender is like a little escape every time I get behind the wheel.
Having said that most of my kms in the Defender have been big trips, and that has also been very enjoyable.
Horses for courses and none of it really matters as long as we love the Landy we are with.:D
Wow, talk about missing the point. It always amuses me how these discussions are steered off into some bizarre made-up idea that somehow we backward people want the Defender to have wooden-spoked wheels and rivets on the steering wheel.
No, the point is that while a spanner and a scanner are both tools, it's the spanner that costs less and is more dependable. The scanner can do a hell of a lot, but you can't drop it in water or drive over it or expect it to work perfectly in twenty years. And so whatever workhorse the black skivvy-wearing urbanites at Land Rover come up with, it will have to be something that is modern and capable but still able to work.
The Disco comparison always misses the point as well because how the car drives is only a part of it. Can you bolt things on? Can you wire in a radio without the computer going nuts? If it's stuck in a river for a week, is it a write-off or can it be rebuilt? Is replacing wheel bearings simple and cheap or expensive and requiring special tools? If not, it's no good for that market, and as usual something else that is will come along and make the money.
Bolt things on? Yes lots!
Fit a radio? Yes
Dunk in water? Yes
Rebuild? Yes - anything can be rebuilt
Drop a Diag tool in water? WTF!!!??
Why would I? I wouldn't do that with my car key, phone, wallet etc so I see no relevance in your point here?
There's a heap of things on any vehicle that will result in most people getting a recovery - not bush mechanic fixes.
A stripped down vehicle is no different to a modern one in this regard.
It's statistically common that its the mechanicals which stop a vehicle not the electronics in almost all occasions.
It's actually all of you that want an old type vehicle in a modern age who are missing the point.
Like a Ford Model T vs FPV G6T.... Hmmm! Very different yet no issues.
Did the Holden Monaro vs the Monaro of yesteryear ruin an icon? Nope. But blow hards complained - yet it sold well and is a collectors item now.
If you want old school buy old ( and rebuild it :D )
If you want an icon.. Look at your desktop.
And Davo... It's Fitzroy crossing mate; Not Mars ;) .. Plenty of Discoveries and New fangled Electronic vehicles running around up there without issue.
Plenty of stuffed Land Cruisers too!
Either way... Whatever LR decide to do post Defender will likely be a brilliant vehicle.
Ha ha, that is funny. Obviously you wouldn't drop it in water on purpose, but accidents do happen, and when it's with your phone, or key fob, or an important tool in the middle of nowhere, you'll know about it. I believe there's a neat story in a VKS-737 newsletter where that happened. (Another VKS story concerned a member in a new car where, when they pressed to transmit, the engine would stop.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombie
Actually, I could tell you a heap of stories about living here with a modern vehicle. I think that's what you guys are missing, the experience of living with something complicated in a place like this instead of just passing through. So, once again, it's not just about how well the thing goes but how much effort it takes to keep it in shape as well.
There was the V8 LandCruiser that just stopped out on a station so remote I hadn't even heard of it. It just stopped and sat way out somewhere until they had enough other work for a local mechanic to go out and make the trip worthwhile. Naturally, it was something electronic and so he couldn't fix it. Being station people, they were able to put it on their truck and take it to the nearest dealer, in Broome. Another V8 had a blown alternator from driving through deep water, (apparently it's down low), and I remember that mechanic being amazed at how much of the car had to be removed to get to it.
We have friends who lost the one key to their Nissan . . . it had to be shipped to Broome. ("We don't want to talk about it," they said. It was one of those married moments.)
Then my work Mahindra was off the road for a very long time - and I was out of an income - because it was stolen, recovered with no key, and the local mechanic had to eventually replace the whole lock and code the key over the phone, which was relief since at one point they thought it would have to be shipped to the local dealer, 2800km away, in Bunbury. (And no, the make of car hadn't been my choice.)
And a boss's Holden that had constant starting problems . . . he towed it to Broome.
And another work car I had where the engine light came on, sometimes 100km away from home, at sunset. Ooh, that's fun.
So when you have to tack on at least several hundred dollars to a repair for shipping, it makes you wonder if things could have been designed better.
Meanwhile, there are a heap of pre-electronic LandCruisers that keep tottering down the road. Sure, anything can be rebuilt but with these things it's faster and cheaper - that's the point.
I really don't know why you keep dredging up this idea of:Hee, that's funny, too. No-one said that. I just want something that is still simple and affordable to repair, and with the necessary electronics being easy to deal with. Land Rover could do that if, you know, they actually tried for a change.Quote:
"It's actually all of you that want an old type vehicle in a modern age who are missing the point."
On a related note - this landed in my inbox today which indicates there still does not seem to be an "official" version of the stop date for current series Defender builds.
On the other hand, "still be available until an announcement is made" sounds eerily like once an announcement is made, no more orders will be accepted...
Quote:
Dear Mr xxxxxx,
Our Ref: xxxxxx
Thank you for your email.
It is true that we will discontinue manufacture of the current Land Rover Defender in the future.
At this stage we have no date for the introduction of the new model, so the current Defender will still be available until an announcement is made.
Thank you for your enquiry.
Kind regards,
xxx xxxx
Land Rover Australia
Tel: 1800 xxx xxx
Email: enquiries@landrovercustomers.com.au
I think we must all be missing a point here and there. In your case you seem to be arguing vehemently that modern is better than old whilst myself and others on here are more on the side of simple is better than complicated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombie
We are talking about a replacement that when released will be modern by default. Even if it doesn't have an I-Pod dock or on board entertainment system. Even if you can hose out the interior and not fry a circuit board.
I still believe Land Rover can pull off a worthy replacement so long as they make an effort to stick to its well established principle of simple is capable.
One way they could apply this to a new defender model is with a water/bomb proof central ECU that monitors all the cars vitals, traction and safety devices and also provides a dash interface for diagnostics and brake down resolution. The on board computer empowers and informs the driver whenever there is a problem.
***Sensor fail***
[show graphic]
[show replacement procedure]
[ignore failure and proceed at reduced power]
[proceed in emergency only - voids warranty - risk of engine damage]
***Sorry I am not starting because something is not quite right, here is what we can do to keep going***
If they can adapt modern technology used on road biased cars to fit the go anywhere principles that made the defender an icon, it could easily be the best 4x4xFar. If they scrap those principles and create a luxury POS entertainment room on wheels with an arrogant ECU that uses road car logic and thinks it knows better - well I wont be impressed.