Thread: RIP Defender....

Originally Posted by Davo

Oh, don't start that again. I don't care if the Defender survives, it just happens to be a very good design that isn't promoted. Are you guys still writing with pens and drinking out of mugs? Some functional designs reach a point where they can't be improved on that much.

Well.... Thats an interesting analogy...

Here is a pen from the 60's...

• Non ergonomic
• Straight body
• Simple
• Can cause writers cramp

And here is a new style pen

• Improved ergonomics
• Soft touch
• writes smoother
• no ink blotches
• reduces writers cramp

Vastly different, yet also a functional device

Originally Posted by manic

If I work hard with a shovel would I replace my hardy shovel with a new shovel made out of plastic, a leather grip, led mood lights, bluetooth audio and a USB slot. Only people who want to look good holding a shovel would buy that because they have no intention of putting it to work. Was that any better as an analogy?- probably not...

Yes.... A shovel....

Heres a Shovel


And heres an Ergonomic Shovel



Both are functional shovels...

One is just "nicer" to use... It still does the same job.. But is less likely to hurt your back, make your arms sore or induce a repetitive strain injury

Today, we can also get shovels with composite handles, alloy blades etc, resulting in a lighter, stronger shovel. Should we return to the time of heavy cast blades, and bet pieces of tree branch?

Is a Range Rover still a Range Rover?

The original was a sparse, barely equipped vehicle...
The modern one powders your nose, cools or heats your bum...
Has better stereo systems than many houses..
TV set built in

Is it still the good old Range Rover?

What about the RRS? Surely its some sort of abomination...



Toyota has a market with its utilitarian range, so does LR...

Well guess what people - LVs (Hilux etc) are now replacing almost ALL these tasks and doing 99% of them without issue.

Only the very specialised tasks are using the 78s etc..

In a world market, only Australia is the sales point for such vehicles in volume. The UN now run Dual Cabs, US Military build specific purpose made vehicles...

The Defender is a classic machine and served the brand well, but like it or not... Its not a profit making market sector...

If one can bring a level of refinement and capability to the market people will buy it... Face it, if LR (the brand) didnt exist you would buy another brand - you would have no choice... And it would likely do everything you asked of it.

I've seen people in pretty standard alternate brands go exactly where a modified Defender did... And their feet were still dry after the water crossing, their upholstery not full of dust, nor were they sweating from lack of cool air.

World safety organisations, enviromental departments and even "safety savy" buyers now demand a vehicle which complies with lower emissions, and is safer in the event of an incident. These people outnumber the rest of you substantially....

The Defender is moving on, its time some of you look to do likewise....

Originally Posted by Tombie

<snip> These people outnumber the rest of you substantially....

The Defender is moving on, its time some of you look to do likewise....

Absolute Bollocks

There are more people in India, Africa, China that dont give a toss about creature comforts.

The problem with western civilisation is the absolute crap that goes along with it, to use a cliche, Keeping up with the Jonses. The bull**** that clever marketing makes you think you need.

My $2000 leaf sprung diff locked series 2 went everywhere I ever needed to go , you don't need a $90,000 Disco 4 or $80,000 Pretender either, or a HiLux.

and for the record my utilitarian Defender does not let any dust in, and is bloody comfortable too.

The indians still make Motorcycles and Morris Oxfords just as they were in the 1950's . on a good thing stick to it.

And if you showed one of those poofy pens or shovels at a mine site you'd be the laughing stock.

Those shovels are at a mine site or 3


Those Indians and Chinese have very different views on things...

The gaps are closing though - especially in China...

Profits don't come from that stuff...
They come from Capitalism
Hence the massive growth of High End vehicles in China and the appalling sales of Tatas little POS in India.

I also have a "poofy" 24 hour Leather chair at my mine site

Originally Posted by Tombie

Well.... Thats an interesting analogy...

And here is a new style pen

• Improved ergonomics
• Soft touch
• writes smoother
• no ink blotches
• reduces writers cramp

And heres an Ergonomic Shovel

I'd like to hear from anyone who has used pens and shovels which resemble the above pictures.
My own observations put the rare defenders (and even series) as far more common items than the above.

I am all for progress, but those are just plain silly.

I've never used those pens or shovels and have never seen them for sale. The point you're missing is that while they may - or may not - by more user-friendly, they may also be harder to make, or to store, or to transport, or whatever else. The original design is still the most popular by far because it's well-proven, as are rectangular doors, elasticised socks, T-shirts, coffee mugs, and even clocks with hands on them. There are many alternatives, but none of them are functionally better than the standard. And that is the key: form following function, function meaning the whole working life of a thing and not just the single intended purpose. There's no reason Land Rover can't produce a workhorse Defender, (or a replacement), as well as the lastest fancy-pants Range Rover. The market is there - the company has not tackled it.

And if you want to have an interesting discussion, leave the personal stuff out about how some of us need to move on or whatever. That's our business.