Lost at sea.

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Originally Posted by manic

I fear the Sea so there is also my own selfish reason for hoping that the Navy could have done better. In other words this news does nothing to make me feel any safer whilst at sea. I would have thought 28 miles off the coast with life jackets and spotted by the Navy would make for a good chance of survival...... its seems I would have been wrong... oh well you wont find me out sailing any time soon.

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See here lies the problem, most people think that 28 mls is not far, because they relate it to driving a car, but most boats are lucky if they do 20mls/hr, Navy maybe 30mls/hr, so if they are 100mls away thats a minimum of 3hrs, then they arrive in the dark. Also you are looking at a tide movement of say 3mls/hr, so those people are now 9 mls from where they were seen, but is that 9mls in the direction of the current, or has the wind affected the drift so now they may be 8mls in a 30 degree arc off the current direction, so the search area gets bigger.

Does it still seem so simple or do you want and a few more varibles like swell, or if they are hanging onto something, or if they have tried to swim to what they think is something or someone close.

Then you need to decide did the ones they find stay with the wreckage, or did they swim, or were they the only ones who got off when it sank.

I think the Navy / Customs are doing a good job in very difficult circumstances.

Cheers Ean

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Originally Posted by PhilipA

This would be OK if it were true Chucaro.
However a 5 second search with Google finds the following on the SBS site of all things.



Can you tell me about the tent cities in Sri Lanka and Iran? My assessent is that the overwhelming number of immigrants from these countries are economic rent seekers, and this is the view of the governments of Sri Lanka and Australia seeing more than 1000 have been repatriated.

Iranians I don't know about but I have seen several interviews with Iranians who appear to middle class professionals, maybe Christians who may feel they are persecuted, but of course this has been so for centuries. What has happened recently that suddenly makes it unbearable? Having said that IMHO the Iranians are probably the ones who will fit our society best.

But the point is that Australia does not have to be driven by the agendas of people from a foreign country who use all sorts of emotional blackmail including loadiing their children on leaky boats. They then destroy the paperwork that enables Australia to know who they really are.
The big difference with previous immigration flows is that the refugees did everything in their power generally to preserve their identities, not destroy them as now.
Regards Philip A

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Philip I was not referring to those people from Sri Lanka and Iran, I was referring to legitimate refugees who are all over the world. That people are living in camps and trying to go to a country were they can live in peace.
I cannot understand these people that come in boats and alleged to be desperate how can have the luxury of selecting a country of destination.
More than that why selecting a country with a culture and main religion complete different to the country were they come from.
Back in the late 60's and early seventies people in South America that were in danger to loose their life used to run inside any embassy without looking into the standard of life of the country that was represented by that embassy.

No one's ever gonna win this argument guys and everyone sees everyone else as soft or heartless so don't get offended when someone doesn't agree with you.
Interesting that Syrian "refugees" have sought safety in one of the nearest countries - Turkey and Middle Eastern, Sri Lankans and others seek safety in the nearest country - Australia? Oh, I guess they're country shopping, not really seeking refuge. Amazing how the political term changed from boat people, to refugees to asylum seekers, isn't it?
And then many want to impose on us the lifestyle and religion they seek to escape.
Looks like I'm on the heartless side. I then wonder how many of the "compassionate campers" are active environmentalists campaigning for living rights for endangered species of flora and fauna across the world. Not many, I'd guess. I'm assuming with 7 billion plus humans we're not exactly endangered.

I missed watching this [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_Back_To_Where_You_Came_From"]Go Back To Where You Came From - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

But I believe it changed the views of some. you can watch episodes on you tube I have just found out.

It is a tough topic but If it was my family living in a war torn country I would be looking at options to get out.

We are certainly lucky to be living in Australia.

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Originally Posted by Gillie

I missed watching this Go Back To Where You Came From - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But I believe it changed the views of some. you can watch episodes on you tube I have just found out.

It is a tough topic but If it was my family living in a war torn country I would be looking at options to get out.

We are certainly lucky to be living in Australia.

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I think we tend to forget how lucky we are, where we came from and how to show a little humanity. If we had turned away all races/religions seeing help
what sort of country would this be. If you live in Syria, Iran, or the like, and desire a peaceful carefree lifestyle, as our British, Italian, Greek and Yugoslav remnants of war torn Europe chose, Australia would be a very high priority choice, even for a Kiwi. And what would we be without them. The input from these immigrants have built the backbone of our nation. We moaned and bitched about boat people from Vietnam, but now they are seen as a great influence to our way of life. Perhaps we are becoming a very right wing nation with little tolerance for a people forced into lives in war torn or brutal regimes with different belief systems to us. I have little time for cheats or cue jumpers, but I will bet many Europeans during the 1930/40 would have sold all they had to the devil to get out of Europe to the Golden Medina, England or Australia to escape the persecution many endured, as did the Ukrainians under Stalin. Whats different, and without lawful investigation of there status how can they be judged. I believe it must truly take some form of horror and fear to put your wife and kids in one of those boats, and yes I have seen them, and contemplate the journey to Australia and the suggestion by some that they all drown proves our heartless view on there plight
Allan

Valid point Allan.
Do you remember how was Auburn, Fairfield, Cabramatta, Villawood, Bankstown ,etc in Sydney area back in the 70's when all the European used to live there?
Go a have a look now, go to Bankstown and Auburn and then let me know ;)

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Originally Posted by Allan

As someone who has a family with a long navel and military history ...

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Our family has a long history a navel gazing... but I digress.

I've a naval mate (who is actually a Commander) who works in the very department that manages/oversees all of this, and I can tell you that their resources are stretched to the limit. They are doing the best they can with the resources available.

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I've a naval mate (who is actually a Commander)

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I have one too, and he concurs with your mate (can't be the same one as my mate's at sea).

To follow on from what I said earlier about the area to patrol, here is a map of Australia's Search and Rescue area - and note that that does NOT include the region between Xmas Is and Indo that our navy is currently very preoccupied in.

Overlaid on the map are two 1250nm (2315km) circles, one centred on Cocos and the other on Sydney.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...013/06/996.jpg

Now put this in perspective of those comments earlier about how hard it is to search (and the top speed of boats) and you will soon see why any criticism of the Navy's decision is unfounded.

The only criticism valid here in this sorry saga is the failure of successive governments to build up enough Military / SAR capability in these areas.

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Originally Posted by stallie

The only criticism valid here in this sorry saga is the failure of successive governments to build up enough Military / SAR capability in these areas.

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being former army i agree however the cost is enormous.

SAR operations to find people can go for a million dollars a day.
i know they say human life is priceless but at the end of the day, someone has to pay the bill and we might be the lucky country, but we don't have unlimited resources or money.

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Originally Posted by stallie

Overlaid on the map are two 1250nm (2315km) circles, one centred on Cocos and the other on Sydney.

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That is a lot of water.

cheers