There is not need to go hungry

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Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

Nothing if you want to be subsistence farmers.

Many people living in the city wouldn't even have a space for the shovel, let alone anywhere to grow the vegetables. Economically it can be cheaper, more efficient and to ensure regular supply to earn money in a non-agricultural industry and use the money to purchase all the fresh produce you require from efficient producers (farmers).

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Many? how many do not have 50 square meters of soil?
How many do not have access to a community garden?

Economical? farmers? Are you aware of how many vegetables and farm produce is imported to Australia regardless if people grow or not their own food?
Earn money? are you aware of how many people lost their job, do not have a full time job or earning about $ 600 a week after tax just to pay rent, overheads, etc?
But, again the purpose of the thread or topic was to teach people to grow their own food and eat fresh and health not economy.
If you like to add the economy factor add the health benefits of eat well ;)

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Originally Posted by KarlB

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I am not suggesting that intensive agricultural practices are the cause of the demise of Switzerland's flora and fauna. I have no doubt that the utilitarian attitudes that are exemplified by such urban agricultural landscapes, have contributed to that demise.

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Cheers
KarlB
:(
PS My grandfather was Swiss!

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Karl, are you suggesting that what the Swiss people are doing it is worse to the environment than having the lawn and all the water and resources to maintain it like we do it is Australia?
Are you comparing the population density per habitable or suitable land in Switzerland to the one in Australia.
Since we, the whites come to Australia we damaged more land that what the Swiss done in their country in the last 200 years!
PS: My great grand mother is Swiss and my grandfather and his 2 brothers studied in the university of Geneva back in 1890 :)

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Originally Posted by gromit

The only supporting evidence you've included is one picture.
You'd make a good politician.

Colin

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Colin, I am not prepared to do the research for you, if you like to knock the benefits of growing the own food and or permaculture not only in Europe but around the world, well it is your shot.
Talking about politicians, with your comment you can make a good consultant for Tony :D

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Originally Posted by Chucaro

Colin, I am not prepared to do the research for you, if you like to knock the benefits of growing the own food and or permaculture not only in Europe but around the world, well it is your shot.
Talking about politicians, with your comment you can make a good consultant for Tony :D

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You raised the subject with only a picture as supporting evidence.
I haven't, as you stated, knocked the benefits.

Colin

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Originally Posted by Chucaro

Many? how many do not have 50 square meters of soil? <in my suburb about 5,000 appartments>
How many do not have access to a community garden?<the whole district, there are no community gardens in my district.>

Economical? farmers? Are you aware of how many vegetables and farm produce is imported to Australia regardless if people grow or not their own food?<thousands of tons - it is how we get summer vegetables in the middle of winter>
Earn money? are you aware of how many people lost their job, do not have a full time job or earning about $ 600 a week after tax just to pay rent, overheads, etc? <5.7% of the workforce, far less unemployed than most of Europe or the 7.4% in the USA who do not have guaranteed unemployment benefits>
But, again the purpose of the thread or topic was to teach people to grow their own food and eat fresh and health not economy.
If you like to add the economy factor add the health benefits of eat well ;)

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Your thread was not designed to teach anyone anything, it was a green enhanced image of a very small part of Switzerland, have you been there, have you been to the Italian areas of the country, or the alpine areas they are nothing like your image. Have you been there in winter, nothing edible grows while under the snow!

Yes it can be great to grow your own food, most people in cities don't have either the space or the time to grow their own food and if they did their diet would lack a lot variety and they would have periods without fresh vegetables neither of which are good for your health.

It is however good to purchase fresh produce from local farmers or farmers markets.

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Originally Posted by gromit

You raised the subject with only a picture as supporting evidence.
I haven't, as you stated, knocked the benefits.

Colin

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I give up, if you cannot read form a photo and using a basic knowledge of the benefits (therapeutic, nutrition and health among others ) of having a veggie patch then there is not use to debate.

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Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

Your thread was not designed to teach anyone anything, it was a green enhanced image of a very small part of Switzerland, have you been there, have you been to the Italian areas of the country, or the alpine areas they are nothing like your image. Have you been there in winter, nothing edible grows while under the snow!

Yes it can be great to grow your own food, most people in cities don't have either the space or the time to grow their own food and if they did their diet would lack a lot variety and they would have periods without fresh vegetables neither of which are good for your health.

It is however good to purchase fresh produce from local farmers or farmers markets.

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Wrong, people learn by examples.
Cities do not have the space? again wrong, many initiatives are put in the to hard basket.

Quote: Earn money? are you aware of how many people lost their job, do not have a full time job or earning about $ 600 a week after tax just to pay rent, overheads, etc? <5.7% of the workforce, far less unemployed than most of Europe or the 7.4% in the USA who do not have guaranteed unemployment benefits>

The 5.7% is manipulated because if a person works 8 hour a week is employed, further more if working more hours but the income is bellow the poverty line (part time work) is also employed.

But any way, I can see that we are not in the same page, no even in the same book :)

Good thought, but until we can control our Totalitarian Agriculture, or exercise some population control (now I have to duck for cover for suggesting that), then it's just another stop-gap measure.

Anybody read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn?

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Originally Posted by Chucaro

Many? how many do not have 50 square meters of soil?
How many do not have access to a community garden?

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Well I live in one of the larger yarded areas in western Sydney. And don't do it.

There was a community garden, started WITHOUT any funding from any level of government. One person leased a plot that was unused but fenced behind a community centre. Over 6 months volunteers worked and improved it and had crops of over a dozen varieties growing that would be made available to anyone who wanted it purely on a donation basis, if you could afford it.

Have you visited inner western Sydney? Where for instance a "house" and thats the kind term, on a corner fetches 80k more than one wedged between others because the only access to the back yard is through the house. No external access whatsoever to the maybe 20sqm of concrete yard that is taken up with the external, detached toilet, outside laundry and clothes line.

And thats an example of a suburb that has backyards. I have a friend in Maroubra that has no back and couldn't park a smart car sideways in the space between the footpath and front door. Darlinghurst, Glebe, some of the blocks aren't 50sqm. There was a laneway sold recently that was 2.6m across and 8m deep. $487,000. Girl plans to build something there to exist in.

I love Sydney as a place. But it's no where to live. I'm heading to Tas.

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Originally Posted by Chucaro

Wrong, people learn by examples.
Cities do not have the space? again wrong, many initiatives are put in the to hard basket.

Quote: Earn money? are you aware of how many people lost their job, do not have a full time job or earning about $ 600 a week after tax just to pay rent, overheads, etc? <5.7% of the workforce, far less unemployed than most of Europe or the 7.4% in the USA who do not have guaranteed unemployment benefits>

The 5.7% is manipulated because if a person works 8 hour a week is employed, further more if working more hours but the income is bellow the poverty line (part time work) is also employed.

But any way, I can see that we are not in the same page, no even in the same book :)

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Yes people do learn by example, but showing people a single image of a well organised (German) part of a rich country during summer and suggest it is a shining example of what we all should be doing, ignores the basic facts of many people's lives.

Hundreds of thousands of inner-city and urban apartment dwellers quite frequently do not have any space for a vege patch, those parts of the complex where there is space (if any) are under the control of the body corporate who's rules would often rather have a landscaped garden rather than one resident's vege patch. Particularly if the resident is a tennant.

The growing of vegetables for self consumption is an admirable endeavour, and provide the occasional fresh produce (often too much in a short time period before it goes to seed in the ground), but frequently the working poor are too busy working several low paid jobs and the total volume of produce that they could grow would ensure that they go hungry frequently.

Your thread would have been far more informative if you showed a range of options like indoor hydroponics, outdoor vege patches and local market gardens.

Remember people in subsistence agrarian cultures often go hungry and have to sell their produce to purchase sufficient other types of food to survive.

Home vege patches are little better than a suppliment to total nuitritional needs not the panacea to hunger.