Guidance on AC or refrig install for a wine cellar

**NobbyTD5** · 16th February 2014, 07:03 PM

Hi
I'm sure there are some experienced Air Cond or ref rig experts out there who could either give me some guidance or point me towards a source I can contact.

I need to cool an underground cellar - under my house.

It is about 22m3 (2.2x5x2m)- Foam board insulated ceiling (house slab floor is roof) and insulated about 40cm down the wall from ceiling. Walls and floor are reinforced concrete. It is well sealed and the door in the floor is well insulated.

It is stable i.e. it holds temperature well but creeps up by about 0.1 deg per day in summer and reached 23Deg C in a recent hot burst of weather
Not ideal for wine - ideal is 12-16 degrees with very little temperature fluctuation. Little daily fluctuation is very important i.e. 16C or even 18C is better than 14C and fluctuating temp.

luckily I had the builder/AC tradie fit a decent conduit pipe and put as a first fix, a set of insulated ref/AC pipes, power/drain tube and control cables, up through the slab, wall and into the ceiling in case the cellar didn't hold temperature. Height difference would be 5m from Roof to Outlet in Cellar. Cellar has Power GPO's as well.

I want a split system that will hold at least 16deg or lower..with good stability.

So far I have researched a Panasonic split inverter CS/CU-RE9NKR AC that has cooling of 0.9 to 3KW. It is the only brand that I could find that cools to 16C the rest seem to have 18C minimiums.

I have tried to find a small ref rig unit and evaporator(?) that might be a better solution and cool to 14C. but very hard to get anyone interested or with any info to help with a plan or a quote. Most wine systems are coupled i.e. not split.

Is any one aware of a ref rig set up suitable for a wine cellar
or comment on the AC set up/ unit that I might get ..it needs to be small, quiet and ideally not too costly.

Is ref rig the way to go? or do I stick to AC

any guidance welcome!

cheers

Nobby

**shining** · 16th February 2014, 07:28 PM

IMO. A small refrigeration unit will serve you better in the long run. I reckon that the split running at the minimum temp might reduce the system life over time. A small commercial unit will be more repairable over time rather than the split which would eventually be a "chuck out" job.
Q. How will you be dealing with condensate? Is there capacity to drain.

I imagine you have seen these?
CELLAR CLIMATE CONTROL : Wine Cellar Designs, Fit For Australia's Finest

**Kev the Fridgy** · 16th February 2014, 07:33 PM

When you start to run modern AC systems at low design temps such as you are requiring you run the risk of icing the coil as the suction temps are close to or below zero degrees also you run the risk of too much de-humidification in particular with modern coil design the fin spacing is quite narrow and most have distorted facings to achieve a greater surface area and therefore greater efficiency for there intended design.

20 odd years ago the company I worked for installed several wine cellars in and around the Gold Coast, we always used a Commercial Refrigeration design as this gave us a wider fin spacing and greater control over humidity which as you would be aware can be a concern.

My suggestion would be to seek out a company that is more Commercial Refrigeration orientated or better still contact your favourite winery and ask them who they use.... persistence pays off in the end

**NobbyTD5** · 16th February 2014, 07:43 PM

Thanks Shining & Kev

I have seen the page after a google search
tried to find the Kirby units in Adelaide ( nearest city) but no luck

My plan is to drain the condensate into a trough to let it rehumidify the air by evaporation - as ideally the humidity is also kept constant

You are both right although forums have people who are happy with AC's a refrig unit is the right way to go…and I will look for s commercial unit /installer

Any idea of size or rough cost??

Appreciate the comments

Nobby

**shining** · 16th February 2014, 08:03 PM

Specialist cellar units are under $4k plus install. Relatively small market in Aus and even smaller in Adelaide :-(.
However, all reputable Fridgies would be able to do controlled temp stuff. There is a fair market for it commercially in laboratories, nurseries and the like. If the room and pathways are set up that should reduce the costs a bit.

**scarry** · 16th February 2014, 08:14 PM

A refrig unit is the only way to go,as others have said.Forget a split system A/C.

We have done a few.A well designed system,using r134a would be my suggestion.Any reputable brand unit should be OK.

Some of those wine cellar units come from China or Europe,so quality and availability of parts/warranties are often questionable.

The hardest thing will be to find a local contracter that knows what they are doing.

good luck

**ramblingboy42** · 16th February 2014, 09:11 PM

Wish you luck, you must really enjoy wine to want to do that.

A friend of mine in Adelaide recently threw out a number of bottles of Penfolds Grange...cost/loss....not mentioned.

He has a very extensive cellar under a large old almost historic home which requires no temperature control.

As for the Grange, he is too honest a man to put it back on the market......he opened them all and the whole lot were off.

**NobbyTD5** · 16th February 2014, 09:28 PM

Thanks Rambling
I do love my Penfolds! (unfortunately not Grange as it is great but pricey!)
I reckon that a lot old Cellars suffer from what I have... slow but gradual temperature change. My cellar is always colder than outside and without measurement - you would think its fine..but a temp sensor says otherwise!
Hence why I want to control it!
I do have a fair bit of wine!!!! So the protection cost will be worth it!
and
Cheers to your honest Friend pity more people are not upfront with issues like that!

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