Thread: ALCOA CLOSING

Originally Posted by CraigE

Honestly I think it is about time our federal govt made conditions that these companies must have so much processing in Australia as part of their mining licence agreements, if they cannot fulfill these obligations then take their licences and give to a company that can do so. Very easy really.

Unfortunately - this won't work. Has been tried before many times and failed. Rember the HBI plant in Hedland, or the Copper smelter at Tennant Creek (Peko), and countless others. The cost to build the infrastructure let alone the cost to operate it will always kill off any project like this - and much of the existing infrastructure in Australia is well outdated.

We've missed the boat (by many years). Should have built a railway across the top of Australia back in the 60's when it was proposed - iron ore in one direction and coal on the return leg, with large steel mills at each end.

What gets me is the latest news that the major gas suppliers are now applying for a 20% increase in wholesale gas price to the domestic market - based on the fact that they can sell "OUR" gas to the Japs for a higher price since the Japs have shut down their nuclear power stations. Surely it wouldn't be too hard for the guvmint to insist that a condition of extracting and selling Australian gas (it does belong to the Australian people you know) - is that you can sell it for whatever price you like overseas, but you will sell to the domestic market at a pre-determined price.

If you think that the latest round of job losses is bad - just wait until you see the number of businesses will shut up shop when they have to cop a 20% increase in their energy costs.

Anyone know what tipped Rio Tinto's decision to shut down the aluminium refinery at Gove over the edge .............

Of course the proposed increase will only bring up NSW gas price to what is already being paid in Queensland (around $5 - $6 per gigajoule) - while WA is already paying well in excess of that (more than $8 per gigajoule). Governments of all persuasions need to grow some balls and tell these companies that, unless they are prepared to cater for the Australian domestic market FIRST at a reasonable price - they can bugger off and find their gas elsewhere. They WILL still trade with us even if forced into such an arrangement - simply because the gas is available here. If they could find similar supplies elsewhere - they would already be doing it.

Originally Posted by 4runnernomore

Fix Australia's water issue once and for all with the pipeline from the Ord river that keeps rearing its head every couple of years?.just saying, lots of wok for years to come for all.

Again - a lack of vision by successive guvmints.

There's already a number of pipelines built to transport gas from north to south - the technology has been available for many years to transport both gas and water in the same pipe - but there's not enough votes in it.

The ABC news last night showed two graphs that clearly showed why the Pt Henry smelter and the Sydney plant have closed.

The first showed the price of aluminium over the last few years - it has halved, and is still falling.

The second showed why this has happened. A graph of aluminium production over the same period by country. All except one has remained pretty much static, just a few ups and downs. But China production has shown a massive, continuing, increase. (Allegedly to soak up electricity from all the new power stations until other users catch up. Consider it as a way of storing electricity!)

But the Pt Henry smelter has had the writing on the wall for a number of years due to rising power prices. It is only possible to smelt aluminium where you have cheap power. Even if you have your own power station and coal mine (as Alcoa does at Anglesea), eventually it becomes obvious that you are better off selling the power on the open market than wasting it making aluminium, especially if you can buy the aluminium a lot cheaper from somewhere that does have cheap power.

The aluminium industry was always going to be an inevitable casualty of the carbon tax and renewable quotas in the Australian context.


John

So John its not Tony's fault? It can't be so

Originally Posted by 460cixy

So John its not Tony's fault? It can't be so

havent anyone say that it is have we?

Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

Now talk about the Western Highway in Victoria, surely another one due for dual carriageway.

They already are. Bit by bit. Unfortunately it doesn't create a lot of jobs.

Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

They already are. Bit by bit. Unfortunately it doesn't create a lot of jobs.

If they seriously concentrated on it it could give several thousand jobs for a few years. There has to be hundreds of workers on the widening of the M5 and thats only 24km and effectively building 2 lanes.

A dozen projects around vctoria and South Australia and you've got a few thousand jobs.

If they go to rail, there's all the steel trackwork work for fetlers and bridge construction. Civil engineering of the formation and manufacturing components for the signalling equipment which could (in the fantasy of my mind) go to an Australian electrical component manufacturer that previously made auto parts.

Originally Posted by BMKal

Unfortunately - this won't work. Has been tried before many times and failed. Rember the HBI plant in Hedland, or the Copper smelter at Tennant Creek (Peko), and countless others. The cost to build the infrastructure let alone the cost to operate it will always kill off any project like this - and much of the existing infrastructure in Australia is well outdated.

We've missed the boat (by many years). Should have built a railway across the top of Australia back in the 60's when it was proposed - iron ore in one direction and coal on the return leg, with large steel mills at each end.

What gets me is the latest news that the major gas suppliers are now applying for a 20% increase in wholesale gas price to the domestic market - based on the fact that they can sell "OUR" gas to the Japs for a higher price since the Japs have shut down their nuclear power stations. Surely it wouldn't be too hard for the guvmint to insist that a condition of extracting and selling Australian gas (it does belong to the Australian people you know) - is that you can sell it for whatever price you like overseas, but you will sell to the domestic market at a pre-determined price.

If you think that the latest round of job losses is bad - just wait until you see the number of businesses will shut up shop when they have to cop a 20% increase in their energy costs.

Anyone know what tipped Rio Tinto's decision to shut down the aluminium refinery at Gove over the edge .............

Of course the proposed increase will only bring up NSW gas price to what is already being paid in Queensland (around $5 - $6 per gigajoule) - while WA is already paying well in excess of that (more than $8 per gigajoule). Governments of all persuasions need to grow some balls and tell these companies that, unless they are prepared to cater for the Australian domestic market FIRST at a reasonable price - they can bugger off and find their gas elsewhere. They WILL still trade with us even if forced into such an arrangement - simply because the gas is available here. If they could find similar supplies elsewhere - they would already be doing it.

The brickette plant was an avg design built by the cheapest contractor and closed by OHS issues when it killed a worker. BHP actually had a site in WA for a real steel plant as they expected the govt to legislate a certain level of ore be processed to slab here. The gov't never did it. This still could create massive employment here and benefit the global environment at the same time.
As to breaching trade rules there are numerous ways to implement a policy that other gov'ts already use. Go tell us the cost of getting raw materials out of China? Certain raw rare materials they will not allow to export at all!
Instead we are heading towards "the recession we did not need to have" . With other world economies picking up we are being forced down.