A kick in the guts to all of us

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Originally Posted by Chucaro

One of my first workmates back in 1970 was an ex Australian soldier who together with his twin brother fight the Japanese in the second world war.
I still remember very well one afternoon when we were fishing in Sydney middle harbor his pain and wet eyes when he told me about his twin brother body have been eating by the Japanese soldiers.
he was so unforgiven that he never bought a Japanese made good since the war.
I was thinking about him when I saw our Pm said: “We admired the skill and the sense of honour that they brought to their task, although we disagreed with what they did. Perhaps we grasped, even then, that with a change of heart the fiercest of opponents could be the best of friends,”
Canibalism, orture, starvation, murder and forced labour are not an honourable thing in my book.
Just to think about the history of the Kokoda Track (Trail) campaign will make any Australian feel a kick in the guts! :(

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A little bit more complicated than that. Two books to read. Kokoda, by Paul Ham, & The Path Of infinite sorrow, by Craig Collie & Hajime Marutani. Yes, all of the above happened. Two different cultures, collided in War. One, steeped in Bushido, the way of the Warrior, the other, memories of Anzac. One, trained to be cruel, the other, barely trained when they met. The saviour of the Aussies, the cruel Owen Stanley Range. The Japanese, at the end of their supply chain, suffering many casualties, the Aussies, short supply chain , receiving reinforcements.


Pushed back over the range, the Japanese , with almost no supplies, resorted to cannibalism, some of them. The Australians, finding some of their dead eaten, hardened their resolve. After that point, not many prisoners were taken. It was the hardest, most difficult sustained campaign of the Pacific War , and yet, the least known. At least, from the Australian perspective.


Where I find it difficult to come to terms with this is,
Sandakan, Changi, Nanjing, burma railway, and others. Not one apology for that, indeed, no Japanese schoolchild is taught any of that. Mr Abbott is putting political ambition ahead of history. I make no judgement. Bob



https://www.google.com.au/search?q=j...w=1024&bih=622

Re Abbott,just remember he IS a politician.They are known for suckholing and talking **** when it suits them.They do not think like the rest of us mere mortals.

Anyone seen the movie "The Railway Man".? Interesting story of Japanese atrocity and eventual forgiveness, by one of their captives.

Based on a true story and well worth seeing by anyone interested in WW2 history.

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Originally Posted by rangietragic

Re Abbott,just remember he IS a politician.They are known for suckholing and talking **** when it suits them.They do not think like the rest of us mere mortals.

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And you accept that? As our elected representatives? Then it is true. You get the Politicians you deserve. What a lot of rubbish. Bob

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Originally Posted by Ausfree

Anyone seen the movie "The Railway Man".? Interesting story of Japanese atrocity and eventual forgiveness, by one of their captives.

Based on a true story and well worth seeing by anyone interested in WW2 history.

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Yes I've seen it. You know my memory of that movie? When his friend hangs himself off the railway bridge, in England. Remember that bit? Bob

I don't disagree with the sentiments expressed and I think the PM could have shown a bit better judgement - however his comments were concerning the submarine attack on Sydney - not the way the Japanese conducted the war elsewhere.

Also remember that at the time, when the Japanese were recovered from the sunken submarines our military gave them full military honours and the bodies were sent back to Japan even though it was wartime.

On the broader issue of cruelty in the war - we don't want to talk about the atrocities committed by all sides - the Americans early in the war decided that they would not normally take prisoners as they could not deal with them - we tended to follow suit and despatch prisoners of war soon after they were captured. Not sure of my facts here but I think the Japanese had more Allied prisoners of war than we did of Japanese as we tended to kill them off.

My dad fought at Tarakan and Brunei and in other areas and he told me never to believe stories that it was just the Japanese who committed atrocities as we did as well.

Nevertheless I think the PM could have shown better judgement.

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Originally Posted by bob10

Yes I've seen it. You know my memory of that movie? When his friend hangs himself off the railway bridge, in England. Remember that bit? Bob

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Sure do!!!

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Originally Posted by bob10

And you accept that? As our elected representatives? Then it is true. You get the Politicians you deserve. What a lot of rubbish. Bob

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He could have put it better,and no,i don't just accept it.Unfortunately when you vote,you end up with a politician,even if they are a newbie,they all end up as one.:(

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Originally Posted by garrycol

we tended to follow suit and despatch prisoners of war soon after they were captured. Not sure of my facts here but I think the Japanese had more Allied prisoners of war than we did of Japanese as we tended to kill them off.


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The Japanese had the " spirit of Bushido". To be taken prisoner was a disgrace to the Nation, & the family. They committed suicide. The Japanese had more prisoners because they captured them in the beginning, at Singapore, and the Phillipines, when they were ascendant in the War. Afterwards, in Papua, at Buna, Gona, the Japanese ate their own dead, because they were starving. Such is War. The Australians were hardened by war, and gave the Japanese no mercy, That is how Wars are won.


Our Prime Minister has no shame. Bob

I think it was an unfortunate comment and showed poor political judgement. It would have been better to have followed the Basil Fawlty approach ("Don't mention the war").
We are attempting to be friendly with a large number of Asian nations. It isn't good diplomacy to butter up one nation while simultaneously being insensitive to the feelings of others. Many nations were badly hurt by the Japanese during WWII so politicians need to be careful when raising these subjects. If Mr Abbott wanted to discuss the change in our attitude since WWII he could have said something like: "Some of those who fought as enemies in WWII have since found friends among their former foes. Thus we honour those who fought for their respective countries." Or something like that. Saying that we admired their sense of honour when so much happened that wasn't honourable is almost designed to get the hackles up of people who still remember what happened.
This is another of Mr Abbott's bumblings. The one before that was his off-the-cuff comment about the English investing in this "unsettled, or partly settled" country. That comment was guaranteed to insult the indigenous population in Oz. I think his mouth gets ahead of his brain sometimes....

Coop