Kevin Donnelly has no clue

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Originally Posted by mike_beecham

Working with young people can be extremely difficult, at the best of times. However, if a professional educator needs to resort to violence to reinforce a 'message' then that person is not suited to teaching. End of story.

There are, in 99% of cases, reasons why a young person is misbehaving, being aggressive, abusive etc. THIS is what, as professionals, we focus on. There is no point screaming and yelling at "Billy" to get his **** together, when at home, his mum is on meth and dad is in jail.

We work with kids to support them. This is not easy. It is frustrating. It is cruel at times. It can end badly. But that is what is done.....in schools by teachers every day in this country.

We don't need big sticks.


Michael

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I agree with you Michael also I like to add that factors like ADHD and allergies to some foods can bring unwanted behavior in children and not many people know how to diagnostic them or even understand the side effects of these problems.
Cane will be not the answer, that it is for sure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mike_beecham

Working with young people can be extremely difficult, at the best of times. However, if a professional educator needs to resort to violence to reinforce a 'message' then that person is not suited to teaching. End of story.

There are, in 99% of cases, reasons why a young person is misbehaving, being aggressive, abusive etc. THIS is what, as professionals, we focus on. There is no point screaming and yelling at "Billy" to get his **** together, when at home, his mum is on meth and dad is in jail.

We work with kids to support them. This is not easy. It is frustrating. It is cruel at times. It can end badly. But that is what is done.....in schools by teachers every day in this country.

We don't need big sticks.


Michael

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I beg to differ. You are blinded by your professional attitude, , but your duty is to not just to teach, but to succour, as a teacher, you sound like you have given up. Your system has let you down. I will not accept your answer, Bob.

Bob
What is my 'professional attitude' exactly?

MB

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Originally Posted by mike_beecham

Bob
What is my 'professional attitude' exactly?

MB

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That is what you should tell me, & every parent. Bob

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Originally Posted by bob10

That is what you should tell me, & every parent. Bob

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Bob, perhaps it is as an example of the excellent education that have my sons in Australia, that have my old granddaughter to be able to be in 3rd year of medicine, perhaps it is the excellent education that are receiving my other 3 grandchildren in primary school, that perhaps it is, the dedication to educate and form children from kindi to year 12.
IMHO teachers can do so much and will be impossible to have a good outcome without the support of the parents.
But I let Michael explain how he see it.

Hitting a child in any way only serves to reinforce in their mind that it is acceptable behaviour to hit others...

My professionalism is always on display, Bob, never fear!

I am simply making clear that to think striking a student because they step out of line, is going to solve their problems is more than short sighted and ill-informed, it border's on the insane.

Certainly we do know that young people learn and are influenced a great deal by what they observe the adults in their lives do.

Bob are you a Series 1 driver by chance?


MB

An adult that hits a child is a coward and an idiot. An adult who says it's OK for an adult to hit a child is a coward and an idiot.

Simple.

Hitting kids just teaches them that it's OK to hit kids.

For example, when a teacher rings the parents because the kid hasn't done the work and is in danger of failing, and the kid comes to school the next day all upset because the father belted him, what has been achieved? Nothing...

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Originally Posted by bob10

Now your making it difficult. The children who fall thru the gaps in our education system, are , from my experience, those from the poor end of town, with one parent, who may or may not, be a drug addict, or alcoholic. If not both parents. Those who can not see this problem, have no contact with these children, or live on the yellow brick road. I have seen a generation of these children, thru my association with junior football .Only a few of the group fit this description. Most of these children have no discipline, or guidance at home, and indeed, are bought up rough. What makes it difficult, is that these rough few are looked up to by the weaker members of the group, and "peer pressure " [ great cop out words] " forces" the weak to follow the strong. If your peers are A grade students, you are lucky. If they are thugs, dealing drugs, breaking into houses, with always a pocket full of money, well, bad luck.


Get these thugs early enough, show them at a young enough age, that there are repercussions for their actions, show the weaker boys [ and that is just about 100% of the gender ] that their heroes have feet of clay, is a start. How do you do that? by " counselling" ? They will laugh in your face. Tough kids need tough love. And then they need to be shown they are loved. And that is the key. Discipline [ the cane, for example] gets their attention. Good old fashioned love, which is what these few, do not get at home, helps break the cycle. I don't mind being called a dinosaur , better than being a new age **** wit, Bob

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Exactly part of my point on this and other issues. "Counselling" against actions when dealing with those that this behaviour has been indoctrinated into virtually since birth just doesn't work because the attitude towards those giving the counselling is also indoctrinated.

Question: If the penalty for bank robbery was a good talking to and sit in the corner for 20min there'd be no one here that wouldn't be doing it.

Given that it's some form of incarceration, perform it with weapons and it goes up plus the fact that you may get injured/killed attempting to get away make most of society think twice.

There was a kid I went to school with who (and only 2 or 3 people knew) was a black belt, won multiple int titles in karate and few other disciplines at a very young age. When we got to high school it wasn't the other kids that were an issue but one particular teacher who wasn't fond of his racial background. One day the teacher decided to make it physical. That lasted about 0.5seconds, he simply sat him down, fairly gently and ensured that he wasn't going to attempt retribution immediately and waited for another teacher to arrive. Next day was best day ever as we watched the teacher packing his desk and leave. Followed by a departmental apology given in front of the school at an assembly.

He was disciplined enough to do exactly what was required, yet the teacher tried to blame him for attacking him at random. When they found out what he would have been capable of it was made clear that if that was the case he probably would be able to make a complaint.

Scary thing is these teachers still exist and worse is I've found more of them in private girls schools than any other.