Suitable Touring Vehicle - Toyota 100's Factory TD Wgn vs LR Defender Wgn?

I own a 2002 td5 , would like a new one AS WELL , but not a landcruiser 100.
My reasons are , my td5 gets 11-12L/100k's with a roof rack, 2 inch lift, and 255/85r16 bighorns(33in) . It seats the whole family(7-5 kids) for a trip, or has room for me and my 2 sons for a day trip.
Accessories are reasonable, as somebody mentioned the factory tank is small, but you could buy a 120l main tank (don't fit LR factory tow bar as it blocks larger main tank, h-Reece from what I have read)and a rear quater tank which holds 40-45l and sits behind rear wheel. You can fit either a water tank or storage box on the other side. With a puma , as you've probably read, if you do a lift you need to put in a dc prop shaft , not needed in a td5. Drivetrain, you can fit either ARB or ashcroft air lockers and if your going to go a bit harder it would be worthwhile to look at ashcroft cv's and axles or hy-tuff.The defender 110/130 until 2002/3 had a rear Salisbury axle which is far stronger than the newer p38 but hung lower. Rock sliders, bullbars ,rear bars are all numerous in choice, have a look at mulgo and rijidij, along with ARB etc.
Legally , a defender 110 wagon can carry 1050 kg, compare that to a cruiser . Add in all your extras like bar, winch, sliders, fridge, all other gear, then the ball weight of your future van, then your occupants weight. You will see why there are numerous companies offering GVM upgrade kits to cruiser/patrol/jeep buyers.
The off-road view from a defender compared to a cruiser is chalk and cheese. A Prado has a reasonably good view off road of it's extremities, a cruiser is worse, a defender is better than almost anything this side of a 101fc.
If your worried about electronics, the third option is a Isuzu powered county/defender.:D

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Originally Posted by digger

Something Ive wondered about but never asked, (so thought Id do it here) is:
as the Puma is a FORD/LR product could you not take it to a ford dealer for motor problems?
just a thought?

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Sure can,Ford Kalgoorlie had everything on the shelf to service mine except LR's flick and tick list. Pat

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Originally Posted by Robmacca

Not in the room department :)

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?????,they have more room than a 100 series. Pat

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Originally Posted by PAT303

?????,they have more room than a 100 series. Pat

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Pat, I can't see how a Disco-3 has more room than a 100's.... I've compared the measurements of the 100s vs the 200's and the the 200 is only 30mm wider internally in the front and middle sections. The 100 has a larger cargo area than the 200 due to all the plastic bits in the 200. I haven't measured a D3, but visually there is no way that a D3 is bigger than a 100 in the cargo area. Not sure of the internal width of the front and middle sections though but would have thought at best that they are similar

Land Rover put 7 seats on the ground and designed the vehicle around them,the reason they are boxed shaped,owners will tell you the D3/4 are miles ahead of other vehicles in regard to interior space. Pat

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Originally Posted by justinc

I would pick a good lc100 (hdj100) but be prepared for mediocrity. They drive/feel like a large 90's camry....:-( . For that reason I would at least pick a sahara model, they are almost lexus like in interior. The other problem with that though is they are selling for nearly as much as a new defender 110!! 10 years old And with 100k+ on the odometer, that doesn't feel good parting with that sort of money:-P . The best part about the cruiser is that fte engine. Imo the best 6cyl td ever to be fitted to a production vehicle, highly modifyable and immensely strong. The 5spd auto trans in the later ones 2003 onward are weaker than the 4spd auto in the earlier, but that isn't really an issue in most cases, only if you intend squeezing a lazy, reliable 650nm and 180kw out of it....B-) the fuel consumption figures are in the low teens for highway, and high teens to early 20s towing, and that is full height 3t caravan towing mind you...they are very economical for a non common rail engine. I guess you need to make up your own mind by driving both, you need long drives too, to really get the idea. in short, there are things about the new defender that will leave you shaking your head, it will most likely leak on you in the rain, it will be noisier and less 'comfortable' than a sahara, and be struggling to drag 3t of van around if that is your idea for the future. But, and the big but is you will not find a more character filled, smile factor 10, totally offroad capable without any mods, world class suspension yet so simple, and touring ready vehicle.

Despite all the plusses and minusses it will be a difficult decision, good luck:-)

Jc

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Justin and I had some good discussions about these 100 series a few months back. A family member of mine bought one new top spec (leather,height control, electronic suspension etc) with the 4sp auto about 14 years ago and still has it.

They are the best Toyota has built.
Good points:
Excellent engine with excellent potential for more power torque.
Excellent brakes.
Lots of room.
NVH is very good.
Very reliable.
It is essentially designed to fit 33" rubber.
Heated leather seats.

Bad points:
Steering feels like it's connected to the wheels with soggy springs.
Electronic throttle feels very vague and is very hard to maintain speed on slight gradients.
It handles like a boat.
At ~80km/h it's an exceptionally smooth and relaxed cruiser. At ~100km/h it becomes a handful on any corners or gradients.
Fuel economy.
Offroad ability.

The fuel economy and offroad ability are both worse than any diesel landrover. It requires momentum and a big run-up to get through parts that a classic rangerover can literally idle through.
Expect 12-15 litres/100km without towing. To my knowledge this vehicle has only hit 10 litres/100km once and that's driving around 80km/h on highway.

The handling is numb. The combination of wooly steering, soggy suspension and vague throttle make it roughly 15 minutes slower than driving a classic rangie over a 200km trip (sticking to the speed limit on straights, taking corners at comfortable speeds).
You will need the cruise control.

This vehicle will likely be replaced with a disco 4 or RRS if anything happened to it.

Are you still going on about this, If you want a real 4 wd get a defender simple as that!! Your trying to compare a 100 series to vehicle that used in the military, come on, don't make me laugh!!! And the gxl or whatever Toyota needs serious work to follow a stock defender. The only place a Toyota is more capable is on the road!!! Toyota owners are brainwashed by the badge!!!

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Originally Posted by Robmacca

Pat, I can't see how a Disco-3 has more room than a 100's.... I've compared the measurements of the 100s vs the 200's and the the 200 is only 30mm wider internally in the front and middle sections. The 100 has a larger cargo area than the 200 due to all the plastic bits in the 200. I haven't measured a D3, but visually there is no way that a D3 is bigger than a 100 in the cargo area. Not sure of the internal width of the front and middle sections though but would have thought at best that they are similar

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Originally Posted by PAT303

Land Rover put 7 seats on the ground and designed the vehicle around them,the reason they are boxed shaped,owners will tell you the D3/4 are miles ahead of other vehicles in regard to interior space. Pat

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I was in the market for a new 4X4, my choices to look at were;

Defender

100s/200s Cruiser

Pajero

Disco 4

Space was a major factor, also comfort, power for towing, economy(not too important though) and budget.

Now space in these was good and by far the Defender is miles ahead, next was the Disco(to my supprise:eek:) then the 100/200, so with this the Paj was crossed off, shame really cause drove the best of the 3 others aside from the D4, Kerry(other half) didn't like the Fender:( so that left the 100/200 and the D4, we picked the D4 because it was the nices to drive, better economy, more load space(marginal though) and we got a great price.

So far it has done everything we have asked, but having said all that I'd be happy with a 100 or 200 series cruiser, I quite like the both of them, I would haved loved to get a Defender, but both of us needed to like it.

The D4 is very Tardis like, they don't look big, but it's big inside, go check one out.

Baz.

Thanks Baz.....
A D4 at this point in time is not what I'm looking for, for various reasons, but when the kids are off our hands then maybe..... When we were up at the Cape early this year, we kept running into a young couple with a new born bub that were doing a 5mth trip around Aus & they were driving a D3 V8 (I think - it was very quiet) and towing a Campertrailer..... It went really well and is a nice car but it's just not what I'm looking for at this point in time... Not sure how 3 kids and all your gear and Fuel would go w/o towing....

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Originally Posted by Redback

I was in the market for a new 4X4, my choices to look at were;

Defender

100s/200s Cruiser

Pajero

Disco 4

Space was a major factor, also comfort, power for towing, economy(not too important though) and budget.

Now space in these was good and by far the Defender is miles ahead, next was the Disco(to my supprise:eek:) then the 100/200, so with this the Paj was crossed off, shame really cause drove the best of the 3 others aside from the D4, Kerry(other half) didn't like the Fender:( so that left the 100/200 and the D4, we picked the D4 because it was the nices to drive, better economy, more load space(marginal though) and we got a great price.

So far it has done everything we have asked, but having said all that I'd be happy with a 100 or 200 series cruiser, I quite like the both of them, I would haved loved to get a Defender, but both of us needed to like it.

The D4 is very Tardis like, they don't look big, but it's big inside, go check one out.

Baz.

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PM sent....

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Originally Posted by frantic

I own a 2002 td5 , would like a new one AS WELL , but not a landcruiser 100.
My reasons are , my td5 gets 11-12L/100k's with a roof rack, 2 inch lift, and 255/85r16 bighorns(33in) . It seats the whole family(7-5 kids) for a trip, or has room for me and my 2 sons for a day trip.
Accessories are reasonable, as somebody mentioned the factory tank is small, but you could buy a 120l main tank (don't fit LR factory tow bar as it blocks larger main tank, h-Reece from what I have read)and a rear quater tank which holds 40-45l and sits behind rear wheel. You can fit either a water tank or storage box on the other side. With a puma , as you've probably read, if you do a lift you need to put in a dc prop shaft , not needed in a td5. Drivetrain, you can fit either ARB or ashcroft air lockers and if your going to go a bit harder it would be worthwhile to look at ashcroft cv's and axles or hy-tuff.The defender 110/130 until 2002/3 had a rear Salisbury axle which is far stronger than the newer p38 but hung lower. Rock sliders, bullbars ,rear bars are all numerous in choice, have a look at mulgo and rijidij, along with ARB etc.
Legally , a defender 110 wagon can carry 1050 kg, compare that to a cruiser . Add in all your extras like bar, winch, sliders, fridge, all other gear, then the ball weight of your future van, then your occupants weight. You will see why there are numerous companies offering GVM upgrade kits to cruiser/patrol/jeep buyers.
The off-road view from a defender compared to a cruiser is chalk and cheese. A Prado has a reasonably good view off road of it's extremities, a cruiser is worse, a defender is better than almost anything this side of a 101fc.
If your worried about electronics, the third option is a Isuzu powered county/defender.:D

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