Thread: The Strain On Defence Force Families.

I understand that this is a very emotive issue and some are going to ride it for all it is worth. Apparently according to several comments here, the discontent is only with what THIS Government is doing which infers all previous Governments were exemplary in handling Defence issues.


National Service finished just before my year rolled around but I would not have had a problem being called up. Having said that we have very close family friends who had all 4 boys join the navy and my wife's cousin was an army wife. Whilst she experience all of the problems of shifting and disruption to their boys education, her husband volunteered for 3 tours of East Timor specifically for the extra pay. It was a life they chose and they chose to continue for well over 10 years. The security of employment was a major factor for them.


It is not a life I would choose for myself but I chose not to be a police officer, a school teacher and a bank teller as well. ADF people chose the life style.


You would think this is the first time in history someone didn't get the level of pay rise they believed they should get.

Originally Posted by bob10

Admitting a wrong, Bob


Stand To - MEDIA RELEASE DEFENCE MINISTER ADMITS ADF PAY DEAL UNDERVALUES PERSONNEL

Johnston (MP) is declaring the last government was "the most profligate and incompetent government in our history" hence the pay cuts. (with reference to Hansard)

ParlInfo - QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE : Australian Defence Force


Regards
Andrew

Originally Posted by nugge t

You would think this is the first time in history someone didn't get the level of pay rise they believed they should get.

Both sides of government are guilty of attacking service men & womens conditions. And all married couples in the ADF just get on with it. They cope because they have to. And this discontent is not just about a pay rise. Although, I'm not surprised some here think it is a trivial matter. Bob


Stand To - War veteran organisations


Stand To - Opinion - Determining ADF Pay Fairly means Independent Representation and a Truly Independent Tribunal

What is probably the last word from me, on this subject, and to be fair to the Federal government, the angst over the pay rise/ disability pension/ service pension debate could be alleviated by the government releasing the risk analysis done, to justify their actions. Fair minded people can understand when presented with viable facts, but so far the gov. has refused. All this does is fan the fire, with some suggesting there was not an assessment done. The gov. could cool the anger by releasing the assessment. Bob


Stand To - GOVERNMENT ASKED TO REVEAL ADF PAY RISE RISK ANALYSIS

I'm not suprised either.
One person's response in a non political thread is to post a political speech, when both sides have been guilty at one stage, just the latest is current news.
Another is to call being prepared to sacrifice your life, your family's stability and your career a "lifestyle". With "job security ". it's a calling, sacrifice and commitment to your country.
As I explained previously my sister was adf and forced out as an injury meant she could not do a physical. What i didn't explain is after 10 years service she was earning way less than others her age, 8 years out now and she is earning 2-3 times what she would if she stayed in. (she did not want to leave) fee we With a stable home, not being transferred at short notice.
Officers can earn decent money but need to be in a long time to get there, and are still subject to yearly physicals and an age limit (60)where they are kicked out if to old or fail because of injury.
To me the SERVICE should be made more attractive to ensure we have adequate numbers for any instance/situation , not cut to drive more out. It's all well and good to have the latest equipment, but without the personell to operate, it's pointless.

Originally Posted by bob10

Am I complaining? not on your life. Would I do it again? Not after this bull**** put on by this Government. Would I recommend a life in the military to young people now? Not on your nelly. Bob

sorry bob10 I took your earlier comment as all ills are the responsibility of this government.


This reference and other from weakestlink are what made it political in a non political area.


I simply make the point that people enter the ADF knowing the life style and the risk. If they don't like the life style or the pay rate, they can leave and as others have pointed out, earn more money.

Originally Posted by frantic

I'm not suprised either.
One person's response in a non political thread is to post a political speech, when both sides have been guilty at one stage, just the latest is current news.
Another is to call being prepared to sacrifice your life, your family's stability and your career a "lifestyle". With "job security ". it's a calling, sacrifice and commitment to your country.
As I explained previously my sister was adf and forced out as an injury meant she could not do a physical. What i didn't explain is after 10 years service she was earning way less than others her age, 8 years out now and she is earning 2-3 times what she would if she stayed in. (she did not want to leave) fee we With a stable home, not being transferred at short notice.
Officers can earn decent money but need to be in a long time to get there, and are still subject to yearly physicals and an age limit (60)where they are kicked out if to old or fail because of injury.
To me the SERVICE should be made more attractive to ensure we have adequate numbers for any instance/situation , not cut to drive more out. It's all well and good to have the latest equipment, but without the personell to operate, it's pointless.

Most people join the services to do a job. Not get one. [ I know, that was the mantra of the National servicemen to the regulars, ] and just got on with the job, trusting our political masters to look after us, and our families, in the event of injury, or old age, or sickness, mental or otherwise. Or death. We were not political animals, naive , really, like the time Mr Fraser froze wages for all Australians, & Mr Hawke, when taking power, kept the freeze on for the ADF only, for another 2 years. Our reaction? They know what they are doing, they will look after us. I'm older & wiser now, & know better.


In the main, DVA does look after ex servicemen, but that was not a government priority, that came about , in a way by conscription. Conscripts, not brainwashed by the military attitude of obey at all costs, and just get on with it, came back , finished their Uni. degrees, joined the judiciary , and other respected institutions, and upon seeing perceived injustices being perpetrated on their mates still in the service, fought the good fight, formed strong lobby groups, [ VVAA, for example] and realising the only motivation most politicians have is losing votes, started making a difference. So, in a way , conscription came back to bite the Federal gov., of both persuasions. I don't have the numbers, but it is said more WW2 servicemen & women gained benefits after this period, than before. The motto of VVAA is, " honour the dead, but fight like hell for the living. " So, yes, this issue is going to be ridden for all it is worth, in the right way, by the right people. I have no hard feelings to any one on this forum, to understand, you had to be there. And yes, I am going to fight like hell for the living. Especially the young ones, they deserve it. Bob

Originally Posted by nugge t

I simply make the point that people enter the ADF knowing the life style and the risk. If they don't like the life style or the pay rate, they can leave and as others have pointed out, earn more money.

I certainly would not disagree with your comment and in my experience there generally is not an issue for the first few years. Unfortunately the new girl friend, who becomes the new wife and then the dog and then later the kids don't quite see things that way. The guy also changes and surprise, surprise wants to put the welfare of his family before the service.

For sure in the majority of families they work their way through this, but for many it is all too much with unhappy outcomes.

It is easy to say what should or should not happen and they the families should know what they are getting into but life in reality is very different.

Garry