Nanny State Again

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Originally Posted by jimr1

I don't think banning things because of unfortunate incidences like this is the answer .

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Agree with you there.

Roll on the revolution

Vote 1 for anarchy

In the Tit for tats over the last how many pages I think everyone has missed the most important points.

1 Raw milk is fine on farms where you drink it within a few hours on your porridge. Any really bad milk from a cow with mastitis is readily recognized by the blood in it.
The problem arises when this milk is bottled raw and then distributed maybe interstate over several days to weeks and temperature ewill almost certainly not be ideal along the supply chain. Bacteria counts will rise expotentially in that period so that an initially harmless product becomes deadly.

AFAIK the producers do not hold it back to do batch bacteria counts before distribution even though it is pretty obvious that a large proportion is for human consumption.

2 AFAIR from my last visit to Dairy Farmers even pasteurized milk is stored for 6 days after pasteurization then bacteria batch tested before distribution. So the producers of raw milk are also bypassing the most rudimentary safety testing of their product.

3 You may not be aware that it is also illegal to sell cheese made from unpasteurised milk in Australia . This is because harmful bacteria in raw milk can grow over time. France has always objected to this and cheese "connoisseurs" claim we miss out on the best cheeses. Maybe so. But we also miss out on some deaths.

So there are very good reasons that it should be legislated against. I wonder how many producers would still sell if they are required to hold it for days and do bacteria counts?

Regards Philip A

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Originally Posted by PhilipA

You may not be aware that it is also illegal to sell cheese made from unpasteurised milk in Australia .

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Err.... no, it's not
This will get you started:
Raw milk - the new moonshine - RN First Bite - ABC Radio National (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

So far, I have been unable to find the law pertaining to the sale of cheese made from unpasteurised milk. I am assuming that is because it does not exist.

This is one of the cheeses discussed in the audio clip:
http://brunyislandcheese.com.au/meet-cheeses/c2/

And from here:
http://www.foodsafety.asn.au/resourc...lk-and-cheese/

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There are also a few unpasteurised hard or semi-hard cheeses imported into Australia including extra hard type cheeses (parmesan types), the Swiss cheeses Emmental, Gruyere and Sbrinz, and Roquefort cheese but these have to undergo strict production processes and testing. They must be labelled that they have not been pasteurised.

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And they are for sale in Australia for human consumption.

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Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

Err.... no, it's not
This will get you started:
Raw milk - the new moonshine - RN First Bite - ABC Radio National (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

So far, I have been unnable to find the law pertaining to the sale of cheese made from unpasteurised milk. I am assuming that is because it does not exist.

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Nick (Bruny Island) [until recently claimed to have] the only permission in Australia to make (a single type of) raw milk cheese (Raw Milk C2). Although the process starts with raw milk, it is heated to 68oC to "cook" the curd and perform the same process as pasteurisation. p.s. I have bought and eaten it several times and it is fantastic.

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Originally Posted by food safety A/NZ association

There are also a few unpasteurised hard or semi-hard cheeses imported into Australia including extra hard type cheeses (parmesan types), the Swiss cheeses Emmental, Gruyere and Sbrinz, and Roquefort cheese but these have to undergo strict production processes and testing. They must be labelled that they have not been pasteurised.

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Originally Posted by senate committee transcript 2010

RURAL AND REGIONAL AFFAIRS AND TRANSPORT LEGISLATION COMMITTEE - 25/05/2010 - AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES AND FORESTRY PORTFOLIO

Senator ?MILNE? -I have been wanting to ask a question in relation to raw milk cheese and I do not know which area of the department is best to ask it in. Are there any restrictions on the import of raw milk cheese into Australia, especially since New Zealand now, as of September last year, allows the production of raw milk cheese? Can you tell me if there are any restrictions on the import of raw milk cheese into Australia and why, if there are?

Dr Clegg -Yes. There are restrictions on the import of raw milk cheeses into Australia. The requirements of the Food Standards Code apply to food from all countries. In the case of New Zealand, soft cheeses are listed as risk cheeses, except for raw milk cheeses. If New Zealand had some establishments that were approved by the New Zealand Food Safety Authority for public sale in New Zealand, those soft cheeses of New Zealand origin could be imported into Australia under the current arrangements that we have. For cheese from any other country, it cannot be imported because it is treated as a risk food by AQIS and it will be required to be tested.

Senator ?MILNE? -How come you can buy roquefort and other cheeses in Australia then?

Dr Clegg -Because it would not fit into the definition of soft. There are standards within the Australian Food Standards Code that allow the import of roquefort cheese and also some of the Swiss grating cheeses.

Senator ?MILNE? -Just to clarify, at the moment you can import raw milk cheese into Australia if it is not a soft cheese.

Dr Clegg -Yes. In accordance with the standards that are in the Food Standards Code-and they apply to a very few number of specific cheeses that have detailed European origin and history of production.

Senator ?MILNE? -Are there any other countries in the world that are still restricting the import of raw milk cheese?

Dr Clegg -Other than us? I could not say.

Senator ?MILNE? -Okay. And there is a review, I understand, in relation to this matter at the moment.

Dr Clegg -Yes.

Senator ?MILNE? -Are you able to give me any insight into this so I can get ready?

Dr Clegg -No, I am sorry. FSANZ is developing a standard for raw milk cheeses, and that process is underway. It is just that New Zealand standard was finished ahead of Australia's in this case, but each country does its own food standard assessment.

Senator ?MILNE? -I am a little bit confused here. I thought we had standardised Australian and New Zealand food safety and labelling laws in relation to this. Why don't we have the same standard as New Zealand since they have adopted theirs last September?

Dr Clegg -New Zealand has the ability, under the treaty we have with New Zealand about food standards, to set its own standards. In Australia, similarly, we set our standards. There are a number of them that are joint, but there are others that each of us may choose to make. They are made, in our case, by FSANZ. We are not the food authority here, but in New Zealand they are the food authority and they are also the people that deal with a lot of the export and import of food as well.

Senator ?MILNE? -In terms of the Department of Agriculture and federally, who in your branch deals with the opportunities that might present themselves in terms of raw milk cheeses? I am just interested to know who is looking at this issue, in terms of opportunities and new markets if Australia were to change its laws in relation to the production of raw milk cheese.

Ms Mellor -It is probably in our Agricultural Productivity Group.

Senator ?MILNE? -I will wait for them then.

Mr Read -But the sequence on this would be that FSANZ will start a review developing that standard. There will be a committee that is established. We will probably have a representative on that: one of our scientists. In terms of market access, that really will be driven by the market. We will be informed where those opportunities lie in terms of export opportunities. We would need to liaise with both the countries that that export is going to as well as the conditions and requirements of the exporters themselves. The sequence will be the development of the standard, as I would see it. If there is some of our big national companies then wishing to progress the development of raw milk cheeses and exporting those to markets, then there will be the need for Mark Schipp's branch to be involved with that, look at what the access requirements to those markets will be, facilitate access where they need to, and align the Australian standard, plus any other conditions required to go to those markets.

Senator ?MILNE? -Considering the fact that there is a review currently on, when do we expect that process that has just been set out to be completed and a decision made?

Dr Clegg -I do not know when that will be. That is managed by FSANZ.

Ms Mellor -It is not just FSANZ undertaking the review.

Senator BACK -Can I just confirm that, in fact, the domestic producers are at a disadvantage now in the sense that we have a scenario where our domestic producers cannot make or sell cheeses from unpasteurised milk although those cheeses can be imported from countries like France and Switzerland subject to these safety requirements? Is that the position we are in at the moment?

Dr Clegg -Yes, it is, but the standards are quite specific. The roquefort cheese is like an appellation on a wine. It is only roquefort cheese made in a particular area of France that can be imported. Similarly, the grating cheeses are quite specific and particular cheeses; we could not reproduce them here.

Senator BACK -I guess that is the question, isn't it? Could a similar assessment be conducted on the domestic scenario, and in the event that we satisfied those standards, could the domestic producers not, in fact, produce those products?

Dr Clegg -Yes, it is a question for-

Senator BACK -Whether for domestic or export consumption?

Dr O'Connell -Yes, I agree with your point and I think it will be the subject of that review process, because you are clearly quite right. There is potentially some element of a competitive disadvantage.

Senator ?MILNE? -Yes. There is a big disadvantage for boutique cheeses in Australia. I wonder on what basis you say that roquefort meets the safety standards but a domestic producer would not just because you cannot in theory reproduce a roquefort cheese here.

Dr Clegg -The standards that apply include a certification arrangement we have with France to import the roquefort cheese into Australia-and it is a whole list of EU standards that apply to that cheese's manufacture. That is how we assure ourselves that it has met the European standard for the production of roquefort cheese, which can only be made in France.

Senator ?MILNE? -Whilst I hear what you are saying about the food standards, what about the issue of Australian producers being discriminated against? Is there no other mechanism to deal with this other than through FSANZ?

Dr O'Connell -It is a health benefit, yes. I think we can take it on notice. I do not need to say anything else, but there is essentially a health related barrier, so it does, I think, require that FSANZ work. If there is anything else, we can take that on notice and get back to you, but the basic point is what I understand.

Senator ?MILNE? -Okay. Thank you.

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The review mentioned above is only just being completed it seems:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-2...proval/5927656

p.s. _ I agree with Phillip's comments on milk, but support the production of raw milk cheeses.

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Originally Posted by isuzurover

Nick (Bruny Island) have the only permission in Australia to make (a single type of) raw milk cheese. Although the process starts with raw milk, it is heated to 68oC to "cook" the curd and perform the same process as pasteurisation. p.s. I have bought and eaten it several times and it is fantastic.





The review mentioned above is only just being completed it seems:
Raw cheese ban under review by Food Standards Australia - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

p.s. _ I agree with Phillip's comments on milk, but support the production of raw milk cheeses.

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It appears another cheese company make and sell cheese made from raw milk:
Raw - Woodside Cheese Wrights

And yet another:
http://udderdelights.com.au/king-saul-raw-blue-cheese/

They're all over the place.

Mick, a quote from your referred site on Woodside Cheese.

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I had to explain of course this cheese is only for tasting. It is not commercially available due to the current Food Safety Standards regulations laid down by Food Standards Australia and New Zealand.

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I am I guess living in the past when I attended many FSANZ meetings, so it is good to see that some companies can meet the stringent standards like King Saul.

Lets hope that the deaths caused by approved raw salami made in South Australia don't eventuate from SA approved raw milk cheese.
Regards Philip A

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Originally Posted by PhilipA

Mick, a quote from your referred site on Woodside Cheese.


I am I guess living in the past when I attended many FSANZ meetings, so it is good to see that some companies can meet the stringent standards like King Saul.

Lets hope that the deaths caused by approved raw salami made in South Australia don't eventuate from SA approved raw milk cheese.
Regards Philip A

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The ABC article above claims 3 deaths and one miscarriage in AU last year from Listeria - and that was in pasteurised soft cheese.

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Originally Posted by PhilipA

Mick, a quote from your referred site on Woodside Cheese.

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I had to explain of course this cheese is only for tasting. It is not commercially available due to the current Food Safety Standards regulations laid down by Food Standards Australia and New Zealand.

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I am I guess living in the past when I attended many FSANZ meetings, so it is good to see that some companies can meet the stringent standards like King Saul.

Lets hope that the deaths caused by approved raw salami made in South Australia don't eventuate from SA approved raw milk cheese.
Regards Philip A

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Hmm. An interesting take. If you don't sell it but give it away it's ok.

Bottom line it there are products made from unpasteurised milk that are being used for human consumption in Australia legally.

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Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

Hmm. An interesting take. If you don't sell it but give it away it's ok.

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That is the case with everything. A primary producer or hunter can slaughter and butcher animals for their own personal consumption, and even give the meat away, but food regulations prohibit it from being sold because it has not been slaughtered in a licensed slaughterhouse.

Just as a farmer can give their workers or friends raw milk...