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Chenz, everyone I know says "it isn't us......we are all responsible"
.....then who is it?
I didn't say anything about banning anyone.
I suggested best practise of tagalong type tours in the national parks though.
How do you catch these people?
Your humble opinion is noted , but tell me how to carry it out.
I said that some people would arc up.
Well I've been to a few Aboriginal towns and there is rubbish for as far as the eye can see, and that's out that way. Looking after the land can also start at home you know, not just a city slicker in the outback being disrespectful.Quote:
Originally Posted by ramblingboy42
I'm not sure forcing all into tag along tours is the way to go. Small amounts of operators all bidding for the rights to conduct business in what ultimately belongs to all, is laced with high prices, corruption, and yet even more a feeling of loss and freedom.
Perhaps National Parks could do more than load up their web sight with "its all on there", "that's our responsibility out of the way" "it's all up to the user now" type approach. Perhaps if they had staff on the ground, or visited schools, clubs, camping hot spots and educating people on the benefits of milled wood, or collecting firewood 20km out from camp, or cans and bottles in fires than their would be less of it. Perhaps talk about small fires instead of ones designed to be seen from the moon. Perhaps if they maintained or even introduced more allocated fire rings, then random fires may not be so much an issue. Perhaps they could even sell milled wood. But no, no fires full stop generally. NSW, SA and other States do not burn down each summer from camper and they are allowed fires. If the government doesn't torch it than some smoker or fire bug is usually responsible.
I find it offensive when National Parks tell me NO FIRES and even film me whilst doing so for their litigation BS. When the weeds, cats, pigs, horses, goats, foxes, deer and many other feral animal is stripping the place bare while species run towards extinction. National Parks should be educators before protectors and managers. Nature is what they represent, loving it, respecting, celebrating it, caring for it should be what they are all about. But instead they are a government department trying to turn a profit or cover the budget. We get what we pay for.
I am sure that there is plenty of scope to have some of our indigenous persons to do a day a month patrolling some of the more accessible and used tracks and provide an educational role and if required collect evidence to allow for a prosecution of those doing the wrong thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by newhue
They could also carry out other tasks like drive a grader to keep some of the tracks in shape and a myriad of other tasks that need doing seeing at National Sparks and Wildfires seem unable to do it between putting up can't do this and can't do that signs and sitting in the office doing paperwork.
A lot of the funding they receive to maintain their way of life could be directed to doing something for the greater community. Wishful thinking I know..........
Why would you pay a ranger , he already gets paid , by the tax payer . They get payed by people that don't and never have been into the outback . Would you pay a police officer for doing there job ? or a nurse . There's to much charge this or charge that . I think I pay enough in taxes already !!.. JimQuote:
Originally Posted by ramblingboy42
I agree with you Jason....and with you Jim too , but you can see there is a problem in our national parks.
As Jason says , feral animals is a huge problem , and I love a campfire as much as anyone.
My last trip....april.....I made my fires much smaller and only used deadfall , but others come behind me too. When the deadfall is all gone in an area................
Part of the problem is that National Park people see walking into a park and camping as a legitimate pastime, but seem to have a very different view if you want to drive in and camp. By the very nature of the way they want to manage 'our' land they are exacerbating the problem by concentrating the users and the effects into smaller and smaller areas.
What is being seen is the overall degradation of areas by overuse (due to the concentration) the French Line across the Simpson would be a perfect example, whereas the WAA line is totally different and a much more pleasant route across.
It's one of the reasons our group is deliberately kept small (our biggest vehicle count was 4) and head to rather more isolated destinations. We have only ever used deadfall, often carrying it between camps.
Martyn
I agree that people should be more responsible , and not leave cans bottles ect in fire spots . It doesn't take much to crush a can and put It in a bag , or take your rubbish with you . We know that's not happening in places . Here in Vic It is a $240 fine to put cans in the fire . So there is laws there . On the big picture , if you were to go along and pick all the left rubbish up , It wouldn't be as much as people think . You can get an awful lot in a 6sqM Skip . I mean in an area . If people are upset about damage to the bush . Take a look at what our mining industry does , they leave holes in the ground , you can see from the moon !!.. Jim
Yes Ramblingboy their is a problem, and its a big one. You have reason to be fazed. I have no idea why people who camp, who supposedly love the outdoors burn bottles, leave nappies, or drive up delicately vegetated sand dunes. It frustrates me a lot, and saddens me more. I just try and lead by example, I'm not ashamed to pick up rubbish, or remove fire rings in dumb places, kill feral cats, or even shovel a dune back into shape. Just ask the long suffering people I camp with.
I do however feel very threatened by our fast vanishing freedoms. The policy makers are influenced far to easily by litigators. These litigators have created a world where tolerance is low, and the majority suffer because a minority did something daft. Safety has become a populous catch cry to replace personal and public responsibility, again manipulated by the litigators. This is then rolled back into taking away our freedoms.
Yeh I don't know really, but I do know its hard to discuss the prickles of the would when you don't have a fire to sit around.
So I wrote to Queensland National Parks and got the nonsense answers below.
Good Morning Philip,
Thank you for your reply. The fire pits are not allowed as they are not fully enclosed. Where camp fires are allowed, use the fire places and fire rings provided.
Information is provided within the Byfield Regional, National, State Forest Park camping pages with regards to Open Fires : http://www.nprsr.qld.gov.au/parks/byfield/camping.html
e.g. Upper Stony: Open fires: allowed in fire rings only (except when fire bans apply). Bring your own clean, milled timber. Fuel stoves are recommended.
If you are wanting to purchase a heating appliance; campers are fine to bring "Oz pigs", "Webbers" and other fully self-contained (fully enclosed) cooking and/or heating appliances.
However these appliances must comply with the following specifications:
The appliance can be used at all camping areas unless a total fire ban has been implemented by the Queensland Fire Service.
- The appliance must be fully self-contained and enclosed and must be 20cm off the ground ? Eg Webbers must have a solid cooking plate (not slated grill) otherwise the lid must be kept on
- The appliance must use only manufacture fuel ? manufactured fuel includes heat beads and compressed 'eco logs' but does not include timber or wood.
I hope this helps to clarify the requirements and please feel free to contact us again for further advice.
Regards,
Hannah
[/IMG]Hannah
Customer Service Officer
Queensland Parks & Wildlife Service
Department of National Parks, Sport and Racing
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Eqpws@npsr.qld.gov.au
P 07 3330 5016 Mon-Fri 8:30-4:30 (closed public holidays)
www.npsr.qld.gov.au
From: Philip A : Tuesday, 16 June 2015 11:17 AM
To: QPWS
Subject: Re: fire pit minimum height above ground.
Thank you for your answer, however it does not address my question as the question referred to National parks where camp fires ARE permitted.
When I visited Byfield National Park, camp fires ARE permitted at the beach camping sites, however I recall that portable fire pits had to be used and were required to be AFAIR 30 cm off the ground."to prevent disinfecting" of the sand below.
A recent report on The Land Rover forum site indicated that a member had a portable fire pit where camp fires ARE permitted and was admonished by the ranger as the base of the pit was 20CM from the ground and the ranger felt that this was not adequate.
So I am looking for a guideline that refers to where camp fires are permitted , for the use of portable fire pits as it is clear to me that portable fire pits are required in several National Parks even when camp fires are permitted.
This does not appear after a lengthy search of your website.
Maybe we can avoid confrontations where somebody buys a portable fire pit in good faith and then finds themselves in conflict with the rangers as it doesn't comply with their interpretation of what is required.
Regards Philip A
On 6/16/2015 8:42 AM, QPWS wrote:
Good Morning Philip,
Thank you for your email enquiry regarding the suitability of a portable fire pit for use in Queensland's National Parks, State Forests and Recreational Areas.
A fully enclosed cooking or heating appliance, preferably using gas or fuel, can be used at all camping areas unless a total fire ban is in place.
As the EASY BURN does not meet the criteria, it is not permitted.
- The appliance must use only manufactured fuel.
- It must be used for cooking and/or heating only.
- It must be 20cm off the ground.
- Manufactured fuel does not include timber or wood.
- Appliances that are not fully self-contained, such as braziers, are not permitted.
- All appliances, materials and fuels (e.g. heat beads) must be removed from the national park on departure.
Please see the following link to the National Parks website for other information on ?Camp fires, fuel stoves and barbecues?: http://www.nprsr.qld.gov.au/experiences/camping/camp-fires.html .
Thank you.
Regards
Hannah
[/IMG]Hannah
Customer Service Officer
Queensland Parks & Wildlife Service
Department of National Parks, Sport and Racing
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eqpws@npsr.qld.gov.au
P 07 3330 5016 Mon-Fri 8:30-4:30 (closed public holidays)
www.npsr.qld.gov.au
Sent: Monday, 15 June 2015 2:18 PM
To: QPWS
Subject: fire pit minimum height above ground.
I am considering buying a portable fire pit to use in national parks were camp fires are permitted.
For example http://www.bennettsteel.com.au/node/76
Could you please advise the height that the base of the fire needs to be above ground level to be used in National Parks .
I would appreciate your guidance on this so that I can buy an acceptable portable fire pit.
Regards Philip A
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Last time we went to Bribie, camping, [ not that long ago], We put our portable toilet up behind the camp, [ after telling the campers in the opposite site what we were doing, so as to give them no surprises], we found used toilet paper draped over the branches of the trees. Now, perhaps those people didn't drape that there, the wind may have blown it from where they thought they had securely placed it, but I've never seen a pig fly. As for National parks up north, one of the pleasures used to be catching mud crabs and cooking them in coals on the beach , the way the locals did. I hope we can still do that. Bob