help needed to save our manufacturing.

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Originally Posted by Eevo

india, china, Philippines, etc.
its why outsourcing results in unhappy customers.

ever called telstra, optus or vodaphone and tried to get something fixed? if its not on the script, they cant fix it.

i work with a lot of outsourced IT teams and they never do the job as well. can follow instructions, no, they cant even do that half the time. they cant think.

wow, i think i just had a rant.

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That's like saying something as daft as everyone from South Australia can't think for themselves and are useless at what they do. In reality your comment shows a total lack of basic understanding of the situation and just stereo types whole nations of people as stupid, which they are not just like the vast majority of South Australians aren't. I did say the vast majority Eevo.

The reality of the situation is that company's to save money to stay competitive look at cutting costs and one way is to move jobs OS, but before moving jobs overseas they do a risk benefit analysis, then work out the minimum amount they need to spend to train up their new much lower paid contractors to do the job to an adequate level that won't lose them more customers income then that what they saved by shedding high paid Australian jobs.

It's a vicious cycle in racing to the bottom to try and stay competitive while retaining profits by cutting costs and it has nothing to do with people from other country's being unable to think, as you put it.

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Originally Posted by TerryO

That's like saying something as daft as everyone from South Australia can't think for themselves and are useless at what they do. In reality your comment shows a total lack of basic understanding of the situation and just stereo types whole nations of people as stupid, which they are not just like the vast majority of South Australians aren't. I did say the vast majority Eevo.

The reality of the situation is that company's to save money to stay competitive look at cutting costs and one way is to move jobs OS, but before moving jobs overseas they do a risk benefit analysis, then work out the minimum amount they need to spend to train up their new much lower paid contractors to do the job to an adequate level that won't lose them more customers income then that what they saved by shedding high paid Australian jobs.

It's a vicious cycle in racing to the bottom to try and stay competitive while retaining profits by cutting costs and it has nothing to do with people from other country's being unable to think, as you put it.

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The issues the two industries mentioned here ,have very little to do with wages and a vast majority of the problem is lack of government support ( now read this line ) compared to our competitors governments.
Obviously such high cost nations as South Africa, India and Brazil need far higher tariffs than us,2-5years before us. Obviously somebody's thinking.
A fledgling car making nation offers 0 tax for seven years to any new manufacturers and the most established gives double the incentive per vehicle smart locals whinged about ;)
The simple fact that on top of local production of about 5 mtpa we imported 3 million tons of steel and the government is responsible for about 1/2 that means we could do as the USA, Canada , South Africa, India ,Brazil , and soon to be UK (25% nationalised)do and mandated local content .

That makes perfect sense to me and the fact that it isn't done leaves me dumbfounded.

Well it doesn't make sense to me & I am not dumfounded.
EVERYONE of the Countries mentioned has a MASSIVELY bigger economy than We do, & a MASSIVELY bigger population.
The fact is our economy is incapable of "supporting" this, "supporting" that, our economy simply cannot support these industries.
Just go through this thread & any others, and see how many times for how many industies, "our Govt should have supported",...simple answer is, THEY CAN'T. If it was that easy, it would've happened, but it hasn't,...from any side of Govt,.....if it was so easy & so viable, it would've happened,...but it hasn't,....simply because after all the "huffing & puffing", it just could not be done,...but some people just cannot see that.
Crikey, comparing our economy & what we do with the likes of the USA is just ridiculous....anyone heard of "Economies Of Scale"?
Some people on here think they're pretty good with figures (I am NOT one of them), well let me tell you there are at least a few chaps in Govt, Treasury, or whatever Govt Dept ya wanna name, who are pretty good, but none of these guys have seen a way to sensibly "support" these industies over the years, ...I wonder why,...obviously 'cause the figures didn't add up.
Anyway, all IMHO of course.
Pickles.

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Originally Posted by Pickles2

Well it doesn't make sense to me & I am not dumfounded.
EVERYONE of the Countries mentioned has a MASSIVELY bigger economy than We do, & a MASSIVELY bigger population.
The fact is our economy is incapable of "supporting" this, "supporting" that, our economy simply cannot support these industries.
Just go through this thread & any others, and see how many times for how many industies, "our Govt should have supported",...simple answer is, THEY CAN'T. If it was that easy, it would've happened, but it hasn't,...from any side of Govt,.....if it was so easy & so viable, it would've happened,...but it hasn't,....simply because after all the "huffing & puffing", it just could not be done,...but some people just cannot see that.
Crikey, comparing our economy & what we do with the likes of the USA is just ridiculous....anyone heard of "Economies Of Scale"?
Some people on here think they're pretty good with figures (I am NOT one of them), well let me tell you there are at least a few chaps in Govt, Treasury, or whatever Govt Dept ya wanna name, who are pretty good, but none of these guys have seen a way to sensibly "support" these industies over the years, ...I wonder why,...obviously 'cause the figures didn't add up.
Anyway, all IMHO of course.
Pickles.

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Unfortunately an opinion is poor excuse to ignore facts, Australia, 12th ranked economy, Canada 11th, South Africa 53rd, Thailand 32nd. Brazil is 8th.
So small economies and massive economies are all putting in hefty barriers , tarrifs and mandates to dumping yet stupid piggies in the middle us do nothing?
Canada is a prime example, one spot higher globally small population over massive land area, 90% local content mandate in all govt projects.
Thailand bought 80% the cars we did in 2015 but plans to export 1 million within 2 years.
The question that should be asked is how much will it cost our country to lose these industries, compared to the cost of keeping them.
Facts and reality are a bitch.:D

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Originally Posted by TerryO

Thats fine to say its all the Government fault, but if they have to pay hundreds of millions more for steel for projects then are you and everyone else who is bagging them prepared to pay more taxes to pay the difference or should the Government just borrow more money and get further in debt to keep unprofitable businesses going.

Qantas used a similar argument about sovereign funds owning airways and when the Government said they were on their own they went and fixed the business model and are now doing ok.

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Again, facts the simple fact is the PAYE income tax From every direct employee, contractor , subbies and suppliers employees alone would pay that bill x 10.
Throw in that almost every dollar they all earn is spent here, with GST alone it's covered that bill.;)
But do it your way and we "save" $100 today to pay $10,000 tomorrow, smart or short term thinking ?

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Originally Posted by TerryO

Thats fine to say its all the Government fault, but if they have to pay hundreds of millions more for steel for projects then are you and everyone else who is bagging them prepared to pay more taxes to pay the difference or should the Government just borrow more money and get further in debt to keep unprofitable businesses going.

Qantas used a similar argument about sovereign funds owning airways and when the Government said they were on their own they went and fixed the business model and are now doing ok.

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You could call it paying or you could call it investing in your Nations independence. Bunging on tariffs isn't paying. It is earning.

Well then Frantic, why ain't it happening, why aren't we making stuff in Aus?
Mate, do you know more than say 40 yrs of successive Govts of both leanings in Aus??!!
If it was as simple as you make out, it would be happenng. Thailand/cars?...no problem,.....do you know why they make cars there?...Do you know that the Aussie Govt "supported" Ford Aus to make the Focus in Aus?....And do you know what Ford did?...They used the money to modify their 6 cyl engine, now obsolete, and decided to manufacture the Focus,.....guess where?.....one guess?.....You're right,.....Thailand!!....and why did they do that?
You are definitely the top of the tree on figures my friend, but as far as 40 yrs of Govts & Financial experts in Aus have been concerned, your figures do not add up.
Regards, Pickles.

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Originally Posted by Pickles2

Well then Frantic, why ain't it happening, why aren't we making stuff in Aus?
Mate, do you know more than say 40 yrs of successive Govts of both leanings in Aus??!!
If it was as simple as you make out, it would be happenng. Thailand/cars?...no problem,.....do you know why they make cars there?...Do you know that the Aussie Govt "supported" Ford Aus to make the Focus in Aus?....And do you know what Ford did?...They used the money to modify their 6 cyl engine, now obsolete, and decided to manufacture the Focus,.....guess where?.....one guess?.....You're right,.....Thailand!!....and why did they do that?
You are definitely the top of the tree on figures my friend, but as far as 40 yrs of Govts & Financial experts in Aus have been concerned, your figures do not add up.
Regards, Pickles.

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Or it could just be 40 years of heads in the sand, making ad hoc decisions. instead of planning for the future.

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Originally Posted by cuppabillytea

Or it could just be 40 years of heads in the sand, making ad hoc decisions. instead of planning for the future.

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C'Mon Billy, you know that ain't right,....doesn't matter which side ya're on,..there's Keating, Costello, etc etc, and plenty of other smart people, who TRY to do the right thing.
Pickles.