Thread: Ned Kelly.

Originally Posted by Eevo

neither is police harassment.

If they were harassed by the police, there must have been a reason for it. Or was everyone harassed by the police in those days?

Originally Posted by Orkney 90

If they were harassed by the police, there must have been a reason for it. Or was everyone harassed by the police in those days?

so harassment is ok if its justified?
who's to say whats justified or not?

Originally Posted by Eevo

so harassment is ok if its justified?
who's to say whats justified or not?

Ask the families of the three dead police officers, and all the other victims of the Kelly gang.

Originally Posted by Orkney 90

Ask the families of the three dead police officers, and all the other victims of the Kelly gang.

he (and his family) was harassed before that, so that blows your theory out of the water.

Originally Posted by Orkney 90

... Or was everyone harassed by the police in those days?

No, the police and publicans weren't harrassed...


http://prov.vic.gov.au/whats-on/exhi...n-to-surrender
Public Record Office Victoria
Kellys called on to surrender
VPRS 4969 Consignment P0 Unit 1 Item 61 Record 1 Document: Government Gazette: Kellys called on to surrender

04/11/1878

Overview


Overview

The Felons Apprehension Act mentioned in this formal notice was hastily passed by Parliament on 31 October 1878 upon hearing the news of the Stringy Bark Creek murders five days earlier. The act introduced the concept of outlawry to Australia. Anyone who had a warrant issued against them under this act had the normal protection of law removed. They could be apprehended or shot by any person at any time, and any person offering assistance to them could be gaoled. This latter provision was used to round up numbers of people suspected of sympathising with the Kelly Gang. It is generally felt that the policy backfired, the heavy-handed tactics of the police creating resentment among the small-farming community in the north-east.

The following advertisement is a file copy accompanied by a memo which requests that Sub-Inspector Pewtress of the Mansfield station make himself available in the event that the outlaws did appear to surrender themselves. They did not, and the four members of the gang were declared outlaws on 15 November.

The unprecedented nature of this measure is something Kelly was to turn around in the Jerilderie letter. His final phrase in this letter “for I am a widow’s son outlawed and my orders must be obeyed” offers the outlawry as a bravura badge of status.

Kelly's document was first called the "Jerilderie Letter" by author Max Brown in his 1948 biography of Kelly called Australian Son. Brown included the letter in full in his book and introduced it as an "8,300 word statement I have called The Jerilderie Letter".[22][23]
Description

The Jerilderie Letter is 56 pages long and contains approximately 8000 words. It is written in the first person on notepaper 20.3 x 12.5 cm in size.[24] There is little punctuation and it is not grammatically correct, however it contains very few spelling mistakes.[25][26]

The original letter includes an undated note written by Edwin Living stating that "This is the document given to me by Ned Kelly when the Bank at Jerilderie was stuck up in Feby. 1879".[27][28]
Content

In his document Kelly defends his bushranging actions, condemns the people he believed had wronged him and warns people not to defy him. He begins with the words "Dear Sir, I wish to acquaint you with some of the occurrences of the present past and future ..."[29] and ends with a threat:

I give fair warning to all those who has reason to fear me to sell out and give ?10 out of every hundred towards the widow and orphan fund and do not attempt to reside in Victoria but as short a time as possible after reading this notice, neglect this and abide by the consequences, which shall be worse than the rust in the wheat in Victoria or the druth of a dry season to the grasshoppers in New South Wales I do not wish to give the order full force without giving timely warning but I am a widows son outlawed and my orders must be obeyed.[30]

The Jerilderie Letter has been described as both Kelly's "manifesto" and his "confession".[31][25] In it, Kelly admits to crimes but claims he was forced into becoming a criminal because of police persecution of himself and his family. He also gives his version of the killing of three police officers at Stringybark Creek in Victoria in October 1878, arguing that he shot the men in self-defence: "... this cannot be called wilful murder for I was compelled to shoot them, or lie down and let them shoot me".[32]

Kelly's hatred of the police is evident in the Jerilderie Letter. He outlines cases of alleged police corruption and calls on corrupt policemen to resign. At one point he calls police officers "a parcel of big ugly fat-necked wombat headed big bellied magpie legged narrow hipped splaw-footed sons of Irish Bailiffs or english landlords".[33]

Kelly calls for justice for his family and for other poor Irish families who had settled in the north-east of Victoria.[7] He also demands that squatters share their property and wealth with the poor.[31] The Jerilderie Letter expresses pro-Irish and anti-British attitudes.[27]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerilderie_Letter

List of people killed or wounded during the Kelly Outbreak
Name Injury Date Explanatory comments
Constable Fitzpatrick wounded 15 April 1878 Policeman, claimed to have been shot by Ned Kelly, but wound was possibly self-inflicted[35]
Sergeant Michael Kennedy shot dead 26 October 1878 Policeman, killed at Stringybark Creek
Constable Scanlan shot dead 26 October 1878 Policeman, killed at Stringybark Creek
Constable Lonigan shot dead 26 October 1878 Policeman, killed at Stringybark Creek
Aaron Sherritt shot dead 26 June 1880 Killed for being a police informer
Martin Cherry shot dead 28 June 1880 Civilian, killed at Glenrowan by police in crossfire[136]
Joe Byrne shot dead 28 June 1880 Kelly gang member, killed at Glenrowan by police
John Jones (aged 11) shot (died) 29 June 1880 Civilian, killed at Glenrowan by police in crossfire[137]
Dan Kelly shot dead or suicide 29 June 1880 Kelly gang member, died at Glenrowan
Steve Hart shot dead or suicide 29 June 1880 Kelly gang member, died at Glenrowan
Charles Champion Rawlins wounded 28 June 1880 Civilian volunteer with police, shot at Glenrowan by Kelly Gang
Michael Reardon (aged 16)[138] maimed for life 28 June 1880 Civilian, son of Mr and Mrs James Reardon, shot at Glenrowan by police[139]
Superintendent Hare wounded 28 June 1880 Policeman, shot at Glenrowan by Kelly Gang
[Name not recorded] wounded 28 June 1880 Aboriginal tracker, shot at Glenrowan by Kelly Gang
Ned Kelly wounded 28 June 1880 Leader of the Kelly gang, shot at Glenrowan by police
Martha Jones (aged 14) wounded 28 June 1880 Civilian, shot at Glenrowan by police in crossfire[137]

Total: Nine dead (three policemen, one informer, three members of the gang, and two bystanders), seven wounded (two policemen, one police volunteer, one native tracker, two bystanders, and Ned Kelly)[140]

Originally Posted by digger

No problems... and sorry Pickles, The Kelly thing ,its a beef with me.. !!

I hope you enjoyed the area, it is beautiful and the story should be told, but really the truth should be told..

Agreed the Kellys may have had a rough trot at the hands of the law, but a point blank execution of 3 police??

I hope my Great grandchildren dont get a cold when they are in Tassie in 100 years doing the Martyn BRYANT trail.....

No worries Digger, I'm not here to "convince" anyone. We all have our views. There is no doubt that the Kellys were not "white haired boys", and there is also no doubt that the Kellys & their like were harrassed by corrupt Police, just as they had been in Ireland.
So, I'm NOT here to convince anyone.
OF COURSE I went to Mansfield Cemetary to pay my respects, Actually I've been several times.s
BUT, there is one thing that I will say, and that is that "NOBODY" "was executed at point blank range" at Stringybark Creek. That is definitely NOT what happened. Whether or not whatever happened there was "justified" is hard to say. In my view there is never any justification for killing another human being, and yet it happens, and today, people do escape a serious penaly fror serious crimes on the basis of justification.
So, Stringybark Creek. There are two parties of Police out after the Kellys, they are heavily armed, in Civilian clothes, body bags, with the instructions to bring in the Kellys "Dead or Alive". At this stage, the Kellys have shot no-one, unless you can believe Fitzpatrick re Ned's sister's episode. Fitzpatrick was a proven liar, fathered several illegitimate children whom He refused to support, & was forced to marry his pregnant girlfriend by his Police superiors. He was later dismissed for similar reasons.(being dishonest & unreliable)
So, at Stringybark Creek, the Kellys found Sgt Kennedy's Camp. Present were McIntyre & Lonigan. If there was to be any "Execution" it could quite easily have happened then, but it didn't. McIntyre & Lonigan were in the camp, they were called to "Bail Up" McIntyre did so, but Lonigan drew his revolver, & was shot. McInytre was not harmed, He was correctly told that only their weapons were required, Steve Hart & Joe Byre both being armed with sticks at the time. When the other two Police returned,McIntyre requested that Kennedy & Scanlon bail up, that didn't happen, Kennedy went for his revolver, Scanlon went for his rifle but was shot before he could fire. McIntyre escaped. Kennedy escaped into the scrub, firing at his pursuers as he tried to escape, during which He was also wounded. After being chased by Ned, & being wouhded, He turned round to give up, but Ned mistakenlythought He was going to shoot, so shot him. Ned admitted this in Court.
I'm up for any "sensible" discussion,...either way. However, if you wish to compare Ned Kelly & his associates with the likes Bryant & Knight, both of who shot multiple unarmed women & children, repeatedly, then we probably won't get far. Being a Policeman, you would probably be aware that the kellys robbed two banks, and NEVER HARMED A SOUL. There are lots of witmesses that attested to that, even going further & saying how WELL they were treated. In both stages of Stringybark Creek, the Kellys were not the ones to fire the first shot. That is also on record.
With respect to the Kellys & WHY these events happened is probably more to the point as to WHAT happened. So, WHY did they happen?....If anyone is REALLY REALLY interested to see what led up to "the ending", and looking at THE WHOLE STORY, they can start reading,...BOTH sides,...and it'll take you a while!!
There are two signs to many historical scenarios. The Kelly saga is complex, it is also interesting. I have done a reasonable amount of research over maybe 30 yrs, but I am by no means an expert, there are many many that know more than I do.

Pickles.

And some one else`s veiw from the other side

jkronborg@nemedia.com.au
November 17, 2015
Categories: Featured Stories, News
Tags: Kelly Gang, Ned Kelly, Sidney Nolan, Thomas Lonigan
Anniversary sparks Kelly verdict doubt
SOLICITOR John Suta argues that Ned Kelly ? hanged 135 years ago in what is now Old Melbourne Gaol ? did not receive a fair trial for the murder of police constable Thomas Lonigan.
A WANGARATTA solicitor has used the 135th anniversary of Ned Kelly's conviction for murder to advance an argument that a competent barrister and the admission of Kelly's ?Jerilderie letter? in court may have led to a different outcome.

The Greta bushranger was hanged 13 days after Melbourne's Supreme Court on October 29, 1880, found him guilty of shooting police constable Thomas Lonigan near Mansfield in October 1878.

Two other policemen died with Lonigan in a shoot-out with the Kelly Gang at Stringybark Creek but Ned Kelly was charged only with Lonigan's murder, although he later admitted in his 1879 ?Jerilderie letter? that he had shot all three.

John Suta, the principal of law firm Nevin Lenne Gross ? who in 2013 secured the repatriation of the executed bushranger's remains for reburial in Greta cemetery and last year paid $177,000 for the last of Sidney Nolan's famed ?Kelly series? paintings ? has questioned the colonial police mission in the Wombat Ranges to capture the gang.

?The evidence is certainly suggestive that the police party (of four) were taking part in organised murder under the colour of office,? Mr Suta has written in a letter to the Chronicle.

?There was more ammunition and guns than prescribed by regulations and the party were carrying body straps capable of bringing bodies out of the bush which, in itself, was sinister.

?They were not in uniform, nor did they carry arrest warrants.?