Whats the point?

DiscoMick · 21st January 2016, 02:33 PM

The argument, which I don't necessarily agree with, is that if you can afford to pay you shouldn't expect others to subsidize you, but if you can't you should still receive a reasonable standard of care as a payback for all the taxes you've probably paid during your working life.

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**TerryO** · 23rd January 2016, 02:00 AM

This is not something new, a mate of mine went through this with his mother three years ago, he told me it was introduced in late 2009.
Because they are farmers with large tracts of land and are asset rich it cost him a fortune for his mothers care. The fact they had no money and very little income made no difference.

**Bytemrk** · 23rd January 2016, 05:29 PM

Moved my folks from the family home into a retirement apartment this week.

Self-funded retirees like your F.I.L. Pedro. worked long and hard and paid plenty of tax over the years.

Not a the point of needing any form of constant care yet.... but we've already had discussions that they need to get some good financial advice before they do.

I strongly believe those who can contribute to their care should...... but that doesn't mean to the outrageous extent that some are forced to pay.

As in the case Terry mentioned - the standard formula simply doesn't work in many cases.

**Chenz** · 24th January 2016, 02:55 PM

Cost us $480,000 to get me dad into the nursing home that we felt was right for him and his increasing dementia. When he passes we will get back 80% of this

As he worked hard all his life, had a nice house and an investment property which we had to sell to pay the fee to get him in, we are paying over $1,000 a month in fees to keep him there.

If he had no home or other investments and had been a welfare recipient all his life, he would be paying bugger all.

I understand the need to look after the less fortunate, but there has to be some recognition for the % of the population who never take a cent, contribute massive amounts of tax during their working life, employ people and produce goods and supply services to the country.

If he had not been so pig headed, or was able to listen to advice before he was declared as having dementia, we could have divested his property etc and lessened the financial burden we are now under.

DiscoMick · 24th January 2016, 04:05 PM

That's a lot of money to get into a retirement village. When my father did it about 20 years ago he funded it by selling his house. Cost about $160,000 then from memory for a unit with the option to transfer into the nursing home when necessary. He benefitted when he got sick in there and got all the care he needed. Even bought his own oxygen machine (lung cancer and emphysema). I think the cost was worth it to ease his last years. He had earned it.
When my day comes, I think I might just load up the Defender, hitch up the camper and wander off indefinitely.

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**Ferret** · 24th January 2016, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by Chenz

Cost us $480,000 to get me dad into the nursing home that we felt was right for him and his increasing dementia. When he passes we will get back 80% of this

Don't understand why only 80% is refundable.

Govt regulated nursing homes allow 4 different types of fees. Most people will only pay 2 of the 4 fees.

1 Accommodation Fee. Everybody must pay this. The nursing home sets this fee. It can be anything up to ~$650k but you can pay this fee in ONE of 3 different ways.

a) Refundable Accommodation Deposit (RAD) this is 100% refundable to the estate on death. Effectively you give an interest free loan to the nursing home which they invest. The interest they collect serves to pay for building the accommodation.

b) Daily Accommodation Fee (DAP). This is totally non refundable. If you do not pay the RAD, the nursing home takes a loan on your behalf equivalent to the RAD and charges you ~6% interest pa. So you pay a daily fee which is equivalent to (RAD + 6%) / 365, You get nothing back because you put nothing up.

c) You can choose any combination of RAD and DAP you like, ie 0% DAP / 100% RAD or 50% DAP / 50% RAD or 100% DAP / 0% RAD - whatever. What you do depends on your circumstances.

2 Daily Care Fee. Every body pays this. For a pensioner or self funded the fee is the same. It amounts to ~85% of the pension. In other words Centre Links transfers ~85% of the pension to the nursing home to pay for food, daily care etc. You keep the remainder of the pension but you no longer need to pay rates, bills, food etc. If you not a pensioner then you still pay the same fee but again you no longer need to pay food, rates, bills etc either.

3 Extra Service Fee. Some nursing homes offer this, but not everybody pays this fee. It is paid daily to provide a higher level of service beyond daily care - ie phones, foxtel, wifi, alcohol with meals, newspapers etc. Some people elect to pay this, others sort themselves out.

4 Means Tested Fee. Not everybody pays this fee and Nursing homes don't actually charge this fee - it's a Centre Link thing. After paying DAP (if you have chosen to pay it) Centre Link makes an assessment of your remaining assets. If your remaining assets exceed a certain value and are not 'protected' by certain circumstances then your pension is reduced on a sliding scale plus you pay (from your remaining pension) an additional fee also based on a sliding scale to further cover the cost of care. That is, you pay more than 85% of your pension. Same basic deal if your self funded, you will be required to pay the equivalent of more than ~85% of the pension if you have excess assets.

Obviously if you have assets it is in your interest to place those assets into the RAD to keep Centre Link out of the picture.

So whether your a pensioner or self funded, both actually pay the same and both are expected to contribute to the cost of aged care where possible. Personally I think the system is pretty good.

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