LPG being phased out by major servos.

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Originally Posted by Eevo

how many car fires have you attended?

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None whatsoever but I've had plenty to do with damaged vehicles, fitted with LPG. Since 1994 all vehicle conversions must have an electric solenoid at the tank which shuts off the gas supply as soon as the engine stops. Burst a pipe? Engine stops, gas flow stops. Gas dissipates so fast I'd rather have an LPG fire than a petrol fire. That was illustrated in the first video I posted earlier.

There is a case to be made that cars fitted with LPG are often owned by people who are poorer and who do huge distances with limited maintenance. Are their cars more prone to catch fire because 1. they are elderly and poorly maintained or 2. they are perfectly maintained but just happen to be on LPG? Experience tells me the former is the biggest factor.

One daft old customer of mine had the gas on his knackered old XD ute catch on fire, 25 odd years ago. CFS attended, blame was thrown about. He drove it on petrol into my workshop the next day with a crisped patch on his bonnet. Raves were aired. I saw his air cleaner had the inlet nozzle a bit fried, no further damage. The silly fool had frozen up his gas converter due to his radiator leaking like a sieve, and when it stalled he cranked it and cranked it until a spark from the totally loose exhaust pipe set it gently on fire. In the shop I proceeded to fill the radiator, changed it over to gas and it ran perfectly. Told him to fix the rad and exhaust to prevent it happening again. Was the gas to blame or just his crap maintenance? Dunno but the damage was so slight he drove it for years after that with the crisped patch as witness to his laziness.

A friend of mine has a VE HSV Senator on injected gas. One day last year the trans hose to the cooler burst. Had that happened on the freeway a fire may well have destroyed the car. Would you have blamed the LPG there too?

LPG doesnt dissipate. it's heavier than air so it hangs around.

i think for all the LPG fires ive been to the car was a writeoff.

blamed, no, was LPG involved? yes.

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Originally Posted by Eevo

LPG doesn't dissipate. it's heavier than air so it hangs around.

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Yes but it doesn't hang around, it drops and puddles. A puddle of gas, not liquid.
If it flows into the stormwater system it presents all sorts of problems.

Between diesel, petrol and LPG, LPG is by far the worst if uncontained. That is why there are so many safety aspects in it's storage and use as a fuel.

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Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

If it flows into the stormwater system it presents all sorts of problems.

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i didnt know that, why?

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Originally Posted by Eevo

LPG doesnt dissipate. it's heavier than air so it hangs around.

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So you're saying that if I spill a litre of LPG on bare ground it will still be there an hour later? Sure, in a still air situation in an enclosed space (like an unventilated pit) it'll take a while to escape, but add any air currents and it's out the door. I think I would have noticed if any of the LPG I vented over the years was still hanging around the place....;)

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Originally Posted by Eevo

i think for all the LPG fires ive been to the car was a writeoff.

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Cars are written off for trivial faults these days so it just shows that they are full of useless crap that burns too. In the good old days you just painted over the scorched bit of tin and drove off into the sunset. And of course the CFS doesn't get to visit those fires that went out by themselves while the owner was scratching himself and trying to find a bottle of water on the back floor.

You should read up on "confirmation bias" to see how useless it is to rely on personal opinion only. :)

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Originally Posted by bee utey

So you're saying that if I spill a litre of LPG on bare ground it will still be there an hour later? Sure, in a still air situation in an enclosed space (like an unventilated pit) it'll take a while to escape, but add any air currents and it's out the door. I think I would have noticed if any of the LPG I vented over the years was still hanging around the place....;)

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it would explain a lot :p

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Originally Posted by bee utey

Cars are written off for trivial faults these days so it just shows that they are full of useless crap that burns too. In the good old days you just painted over the scorched bit of tin and drove off into the sunset. And of course the CFS doesn't get to visit those fires that went out by themselves while the owner was scratching himself and trying to find a bottle of water on the back floor.

You should read up on "confirmation bias" to see how useless it is to rely on personal opinion only. :)

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wheres ones were not trivial. half the car burnt.


lol, what do you think the other 40 call out for car fire that weren't are?

Gas can collect in depression in the ground like drains. it can displace oxygen or ignite. Boats are a good example of petrol or LPG issues and diesel being safer.


diesel and oil products and I would also guess spilled petrol pollutes long term. old workshops can be very expensive to decontaminate, often the only way is to remove the contamination so that is actually not decontamination.


Most car fires I attended are oil or electrical.
Most of the written off cars that I have degassed air conditioner had electrical fires from physical damage, oil fires or petrol leaks. the only diesel fires I attended or seen at auction would have been a result of tyres or combustion of alloy fires due to the higher temp needed to flash the fuel.


Common rail diesel have big risk of high pressure ignition fires from component failure. Only read about the warnings.


I havnt yet seen any LPG bowsers missing in this region due to the sales volume. the fact that over the last 20 years the numbers of bowsers has increased big time any reduction will be a return to the norm. Once upon a time I would have to plan my fuel stops and visit fuel depo and hope that the bowsers would be in service.


NOTE-some long weekends in NSW I have had to camp in servo driveway to get petrol. During emergency and storm events diesel can be in short supply. I work for a council and we have to store emergency supply that we actually have to use.

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Originally Posted by Eevo

i dont have exact figures but something like 60% of car fires are from LPG

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I've had four LPG cars,my Tdi still is and I've never had a fire ;). Pat

Eevo
LPG shouldnt be flowing in the event of an accident.There are lock valves both in the engine bay and on the tank.There is a device that shuts the valves if the engine isnt running or if the vehicle is upturned.
Andrew

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Originally Posted by Eevo

i agree and i dont know the reason why, i just know the end result.
i agree diesel is def the safest.

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My Tdi's LPG system needs the ignition one to open the tank solenoid,a tank that is certified when made and certified when installed,the gas then feeds through HP spiral wrapped hose to the engine bay,the hose is certified when made and certified when installed,it then goes through another solenoid that needs the ignition on to get to the converter,again all certified to a third solenoid that only feeds gas with the ignition on and boost over 2 psi,all this certified etc etc.Or you can go to your local Toybota dealer and buy a Playdo which has a plastic 90ltr petrol tank made from recycled 2ltr milk bottles protected by a plastic bumper made from more recycled 2 ltr milk bottles that split open every time they crash tested them,even front end crashes caused them to split :confused: , if you want to talk about safety. Pat