Big storm and no power in SA

"In a country where the transition to renewable energy is being spurred by government investment, building a new coal-fired power plant might seem incongruous. However, the shutdown of Germany's nuclear plants is presenting challenges to maintaining a reliable and dispatchable power supply. Many of Germany's existing fossil-fueled power plants are over 25 years old'replacing aging plants with more efficient generation also supports the country's decarbonization efforts. Construction of the ?1.4 billion L?nen plant in North-Rhine Westphalia began in 2008; the plant has been delivering power to the electric grid since December 2013. L?nen is owned by Trianel Kohlekraftwerk L?nen GmbH & Co. KG, a consortium of 31 municipal utilities and energy providers. The plant was built to allow the municipal utilities to be independent and ensure a safe and affordable energy supply for 1.6 million households"

Odd!

Setting the Benchmark: The World

Interesting to see the "world leaders in energy" doing things like this!....surely they could just use their smart grid that was earlier linked to fix this?:D

The question is why Germany has new coal plants in construction, and SA does not. Perhaps it has something to do with large reserves of coal and nearby abundant water, something very much absent in SA? Newer plants are cleaner and more efficient?

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Odd!

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Only if you see the world distorted, in black and white, as through the bottom of a whisky bottle.

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Originally Posted by bee utey

South Australia has a number of generators capable of "black starting" the grid. Not enough were available at short notice on the night so the Vic interconnector was used instead. This took a little longer than expected. The jury is out on the question of whether the owners of these "black start" capable generators were 1. incompetent, unable to see a severe weather forecast and plan for it, or 2. crooked, paid to make SA's renewable resources look bad.

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Nah, there is no jury. It's all pretty straightforward.

System Restart Ancillary Services (SRAS) are contracted out by AEMO. Generators are paid on their availability and must meet certain minimums.

It is the responsibility of AEMO to manage system security and contingency (see my post a few pages back) and to direct SRAS providers in the course of a restart event.

The sequence of events posted earlier for the restart is close but not quite correct.

See pages 28-29 here:
http://aemo.com.au/Media-Centre/-/me...49F38A36D.ashx

SA weather: Safety settings caused wind farms to reduce output during SA's blackout, regulator says - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

So now we know the official verdict.
Planned safety settings caused the wind generators to back out.
The baseload argument was irrelevant as there was plenty of power being provided.
Nothing to see here, I think, just an anti-renewables scare campaign.

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Originally Posted by ballbag

Nah, there is no jury. It's all pretty straightforward.

System Restart Ancillary Services (SRAS) are contracted out by AEMO. Generators are paid on their availability and must meet certain minimums.

It is the responsibility of AEMO to manage system security and contingency (see my post a few pages back) and to direct SRAS providers in the course of a restart event.

The sequence of events posted earlier for the restart is close but not quite correct.

See pages 28-29 here:
http://aemo.com.au/Media-Centre/-/me...49F38A36D.ashx

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From the report:

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The five synchronous thermal generators operating at the time of the event remained connected and operated up until the SA system disconnected from the rest of the National Electricity Market (NEM). The operation of these generators was not materially impacted by the system faults experienced during this event.

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Investigations now show that there was a total sustained reduction of 445 MW of wind generation across nine wind farms, plus further transient reductions of 39 MW in each ride-through event. The transient reduction in output was spread across all wind farms online at the time, including those that did not suffer a sustained reduction in output.

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So, the thermal generation was unaffected by the storm but the wind generation shut down across the state, even those that were not in the storms path. Remember the storm was only in the northern gulf area. Not the whole state.

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Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

Remember the storm was only in the northern gulf area. Not the whole state.

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:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

SA weather: Safety settings caused wind farms to reduce output during SA's blackout, regulator says - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

So now we know the official verdict.
Planned safety settings caused the wind generators to back out.
The baseload argument was irrelevant as there was plenty of power being provided.
Nothing to see here, I think, just an anti-renewables scare campaign.

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Are you skipping sentences or what?

Scare campaign?....it's what has been said all along, wind turbines could not cope with wind, being asynchronous, they are effectively stabilised on grid by baseload generators, when they bailed...as they are designed to do....the baseload units could not deal with the loss of generation, if they lost that same amount of MW of synchronous power, it would not of been an issue.......if you could use wind for base load generation, that would be fine....but you can't......

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

So now we know the official verdict.
Planned safety settings caused the wind generators to back out.
The baseload argument was irrelevant as there was plenty of power being provided.
Nothing to see here, I think, just an anti-renewables scare campaign.

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Not going to have an internet argument with you but that's not the opinion of the market operator or the SA government. Ignore whatever the peckerheads are saying in the media.

The SA government has enacted a new market rule which effectively forces an increased proportion of synchronous generation to be dispatched in high wind scenarios (but you won't hear them slag off renewables in the press until it's politically expedient to do so).

Good move but this constraint should have absolutely been in place before the storm, no ifs or buts. Neither AEMO or the government will put their hand up for that either.

AEMO's latest analysis is linked above. If you are really interested, have a read. It's pretty dull but informative nontheless.

Cheers.

From what I've read the wind generators did exactly what the rules in place required them to do. Now the rules are being changed to give a different result, which is fine if the authorities want to achieve a different result.
I don't see the point in blaming elements in the system if each element did as it was intended to do. Might as well blame the interconnectors for doing as planned and tripping out.
If there is any failure it seems to be a management failure to plan for this unexpected and unusual situation.
I guess lessons have been learned and practices will change. For example, they might keep some gas running so it doesn't have to be fired up from standstill, as happens elsewhere.

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-1...t-mean/7946490

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

From what I've read the wind generators did exactly what the rules in place required them to do. Now the rules are being changed to give a different result, which is fine if the authorities want to achieve a different result.
I don't see the point in blaming elements in the system if each element did as it was intended to do. Might as well blame the interconnectors for doing as planned and tripping out.
If there is any failure it seems to be a management failure to plan for this unexpected and unusual situation.
I guess lessons have been learned and practices will change. For example, they might keep some gas running so it doesn't have to be fired up from standstill, as happens elsewhere.

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

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The wind generators **** down, to protect themselves....nothing to do with "rules"....bizarre! you need to pick this vital bit up, they tripped on protection, for preservation of the machinery, the secondary effects followed on from this, as there is a saturation of asynchronous power on the grid there, non baseload generation

Again, you can't just keep a gas boiler on standby.....boilers are designed with a particular fuel volume, to keep the flame ball in the right region of the boiler, you can't just tick along at 10% load on standby.....that's another reason why we use plants like this for.......baseload generation:D