Big storm and no power in SA

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Originally Posted by bee utey

True dat, dig up productive farmland in NSW and Queensland to produce a product that is burned to ash just once, or dig up the WA desert to produce a material that is used a few thousand times then recycled 10 to 15 years into the future.

Lithium mines pegged to grow sevenfold as Chinese investment propels WA boom - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Sounds like progress to me!!!

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Result of a google search - reference available if anyone requires it.
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Dozens of reports are available on the ecological impact of lithium mining. Unfortunately, many of them are influenced by the perspective of the organizations or authors releasing them. Reducing the available information to studies carried out by government bodies and research institutes around the world, a picture emerges nonetheless:

Elemental lithium is flammable and very reactive. In nature, lithium occurs in compounded forms such as lithium carbonate requiring chemical processing to be made usable.
Lithium is typically found in salt flats in areas where water is scarce. The mining process of lithium uses large amounts of water. Therefore, on top of water contamination as a result of its use, depletion or transportation costs are issues to be dealt with. Depletion results in less available water for local populations, flora and fauna.
Toxic chemicals are used for leaching purposes, chemicals requiring waste treatment. There are widespread concerns of improper handling and spills, like in other mining operations around the world.
The recovery rate of lithium ion batteries, even in first world countries, is in the single digit percent range. Most batteries end up in landfill.
In a 2013 report, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) points out that nickel and cobalt, both also used in the production of lithium ion batteries, represent significant additional environmental risks.
A 2012 study titled “Science for Environment Policy” published by the European Union compares lithium ion batteries to other types of batteries available (lead-acid, nickel-cadmium, nickel-metal-hydride and sodium sulphur). It concludes that lithium ion batteries have the largest impact on metal depletion, suggesting that recycling is complicated. Lithium ion batteries are also, together with nickel-metal-hydride batteries, the most energy consuming technologies using the equivalent of 1.6kg of oil per kg of battery produced. They also ranked the worst in greenhouse gas emissions with up to 12.5kg of CO2 equivalent emitted per kg of battery. The authors do point out that “…for a full understanding of life cycle impacts, further aspects of battery use need to be considered, such as length of usage, performance at different temperatures, and ability to discharge quickly.”

Technology will of course improve, lithium supplies will be sufficient for the foreseeable future, and recycling rates will climb. Other issues like the migration of aging cars and electronic devices to countries with less developed infrastructures will, however, remain. As will the reality of lithium mining and processing. It is therefore conceivable that new battery technologies (sea water batteries or the nano-flowcell, for instance) will gain more importance in years to come, as will hydrogen fuel cells.

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Originally Posted by donh54

Technology will of course improve, lithium supplies will be sufficient for the foreseeable future, and recycling rates will climb. Other issues like the migration of aging cars and electronic devices to countries with less developed infrastructures will, however, remain. As will the reality of lithium mining and processing. It is therefore conceivable that new battery technologies (sea water batteries or the nano-flowcell, for instance) will gain more importance in years to come, as will hydrogen fuel cells.

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Good to see that people are looking at the problems associated with lithium production. However I maintain that the pollution is waaay less dangerous over all than that produced by the burning of fossil fuels in highly populated areas. It'll be like e-waste being exported now, still needs better oversight.

Then the hydrogen pundits need to understand just one of the major problems with their chosen technology: flammability. Unlike LPG which is flammable over a quite narrow air-fuel ratio, hydrogen burns freely over a much wider range. Just imagine the horror of sloppy handling by allowing the general public near the refuelling process. It won't be pretty when there's a major incident. It took 20 years before the authorities could trust the average punter to handle a LPG nozzle, I still remember that I couldn't refuel at many stations in the late 80's until an attendant could be summoned to do the dangerous task for me.

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Originally Posted by donh54

Lithium is typically found in salt flats in areas where water is scarce. The mining process of lithium uses large amounts of water. Therefore, on top of water contamination as a result of its use, depletion or transportation costs are issues to be dealt with. Depletion results in less available water for local populations, flora and fauna.

Not really the typical case any more. Lithium is mined from three types of deposits: brines, pegmatites and sedimentary rocks. Continental brines and pegmatites (or hard-rock ore) are the main sources for commercial lithium production. Lithium minerals containing lithia (Li₂O), such as spodumene, petalite and lepidolite, are mined from open-cut and underground mines, with the largest producers being Australia, China, Zimbabwe and Canada.

Lithium-rich brines from salt lakes are located in the Andes of Chile and Argentina and in the Himalayas of China. Not sure about in China, but the mining and processing of lithium from salt lakes in South America is on the decline for a number of reasons, which include both environmental concerns and economic viability. These mines are rapidly becoming less competitive in a market where new technology is emerging all the time.



Toxic chemicals are used for leaching purposes, chemicals requiring waste treatment. There are widespread concerns of improper handling and spills, like in other mining operations around the world.

As above, this is rapidly becoming less typical of the industry as the older mines are shut down and replaced with new technology. Australia's largest and longest established producer, the Greenbushes Lithium Operations has two processing plants, one producing technical-grade lithium concentrates and one producing chemical-grade lithium concentrate. Ore containing Li₂O is fed into the processing plants which upgrade the lithium mineral, using gravity, heavy media, flotation and magnetic processes, into a range of lithium concentrates for bulk or bagged shipment.

Various operating modes are used in the processing plants to produce a variety of different lithium concentrates to meet specific customer requirements. These processes are no different to what I have been working with for many years in both gold and iron ore processing, and use little if any chemicals.

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I am doing some work on a relatively small lithium processing operation at the moment, and have a mate who is one of the processing managers at one of the new, very large lithium operations currently under development in WA. The mining and processing methods used for these operations (particularly the new and very large operations under development) are a far cry from the old processes that you will find in a google search.

A Perth based company is at the forefront of technology improvements in the lithium mining / processing industries, and is developing a hydrometallurgical process, known as Sileach, that will enhance the recovery of lithium from hard rock, one of the two key sources of lithium chemicals.

Prior to 1990 much of the world’s lithium was sourced from hard rock. That was until the other key lithium source, brine, took over as predominantly South American companies achieved production at much lower operating costs.
A resurgence in hard rock lithium production in recent years has seen it once again eclipse brine as the world’s primary source, with capital requirements now much lower and because it can be efficiently brought to the market to react to demand.

Australia currently has 14 ASX listed companies with Lithium deposits with four ASX listed companies with JORC compliant resources and in 2016 was the world's top producer according to the U.S. Geological Survey 2016. Most of the current new mine development in Australia is Chinese funded, with most of the product of the mines pre-sold to Chinese companies. My boss is off to China in the near future to look at some processing equipment for a local mining operation - hopefully I might score another trip over there myself sometime soon (I loved the place last time I was over there - couldn't believe the number of Disco 4's and Rangie Sports running around Shanghai). [thumbsupbig]

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Originally Posted by BMKal

I am doing some work on a relatively small lithium processing operation at the moment, and have a mate who is one of the processing managers at one of the new, very large lithium operations currently under development in WA. The mining and processing methods used for these operations (particularly the new and very large operations under development) are a far cry from the old processes that you will find in a google search.

A Perth based company is at the forefront of technology improvements in the lithium mining / processing industries, and is developing a hydrometallurgical process, known as Sileach, that will enhance the recovery of lithium from hard rock, one of the two key sources of lithium chemicals.

Prior to 1990 much of the world’s lithium was sourced from hard rock. That was until the other key lithium source, brine, took over as predominantly South American companies achieved production at much lower operating costs.
A resurgence in hard rock lithium production in recent years has seen it once again eclipse brine as the world’s primary source, with capital requirements now much lower and because it can be efficiently brought to the market to react to demand.

Australia currently has 14 ASX listed companies with Lithium deposits with four ASX listed companies with JORC compliant resources and in 2016 was the world's top producer according to the U.S. Geological Survey 2016. Most of the current new mine development in Australia is Chinese funded, with most of the product of the mines pre-sold to Chinese companies. My boss is off to China in the near future to look at some processing equipment for a local mining operation - hopefully I might score another trip over there myself sometime soon (I loved the place last time I was over there - couldn't believe the number of Disco 4's and Rangie Sports running around Shanghai). [thumbsupbig]

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Thanks for that. Nothing like good current information to address the preponderance of older data available on the net.
Good to hear that we're actually leading the world in something other than the rotational speed of our prime ministers.

So sad.
Another industry in SA folds. Plastics Granulating Services, a company in business for 38 years that recycles plastic, can't keep the lights on. Their energy bill has risen from $80,000/month to $180,000/month over the last eighteen months. 45 employees made redundant.

coal closing = higher electricity prices.
what did people expect

Their roof looks suspiciously lacking in solar panels, even the landscape supplies place next door has some. Maybe they weren't interested in environmental issues after all?

Google Earth link

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Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

So sad.
Another industry in SA folds. Plastics Granulating Services, a company in business for 38 years that recycles plastic, can't keep the lights on. Their energy bill has risen from $80,000/month to $180,000/month over the last eighteen months. 45 employees made redundant.

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Says it all.
Pickles.

thats a lot of power.
i feel ok about my $800 bill now

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Originally Posted by Eevo

thats a lot of power.
i feel ok about my $800 bill now

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After our last bill ($260), I'm considering closing up the house and moving into the camper trailer! [bigrolf]