Big storm and no power in SA

**JDNSW** · 22nd June 2017, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by Eevo

but the ingredients in lithium's are less abundant.

ive been thinking about a lithum battery for my motorbike

Lithium is less abundant than lead, if you look at the published reserves. But like any mineral, the known reserves depend largely on demand - without a market, nobody is going to be looking for it, and the demand for lithium is a lot less than that for lead. Crustal total for the metals are about 14 parts per million for lead and estimates for lithium of 20-70 ppm. Lithium is more uncertain because, not being nearly as economically important, it is less studied. In reality, it is impossible to say which material is more abundant, except in the very short term, where lead, having been a major industrial input material for at least two thousand years, can be supplied immediately in very large quantities, where any sudden surge in lithium demand is likely to have to wait on the development of new mines and perhaps the finding of new deposits.

Then there is the point that lithium batteries, as pointed out, weigh a lot less than lead-acid batteries - which means that you get a lot more storage capacity per kg from lithium. So if you want to claim the ingredients for lithium batteries are less abundant, you need to specify what time frame you mean, do some careful calculations and acknowledge large error bars!

**Eevo** · 22nd June 2017, 11:44 PM

like i said less abundant.
its a balancing point btween demand and supply. and it will take a few years for supply to catch up to demand depending on how quicly demand jumps

**trout1105** · 23rd June 2017, 08:03 AM

I would think that the demand for the lithium batteries is Price Driven, When the prices drop to an affordable rate then more people will switch to lithium.
At the moment the prices for the lithium batteries are to high for most people.

**bee utey** · 23rd June 2017, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by Eevo

like i said less abundant.
its a balancing point btween demand and supply. and it will take a few years for supply to catch up to demand depending on how quicly demand jumps

Ya'd think the big boys would have a good idea about the supply of battery raw materials.

http://media.daimler.com/marsMediaSi...l?oid=17464074

At the wholly-owned subsidiary ACCUMOTIVE in Kamenz, the second factory for lithium-ion batteries is built with an investment of around 500 million euros.

They're not going to invest over a billion bucks to have their two shiny new factories sitting around idle.

**Eevo** · 23rd June 2017, 08:49 AM

cause companies never made bad investments.

**bee utey** · 23rd June 2017, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by Eevo

cause companies never fail.

Just like coal generators then...

**Eevo** · 23rd June 2017, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by bee utey

Just like coal generators then...

too slow with me edit:

yep, one day. but while there is demand, it wont be today... and probably wont be tomorrow.

**donh54** · 23rd June 2017, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by Eevo

like i said less abundant.
its a balancing point btween demand and supply. and it will take a few years for supply to catch up to demand depending on how quicly demand jumps

So we stop digging up coal, and start digging up lithium? Way to go with progress!!!

**Eevo** · 23rd June 2017, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by donh54

So we stop digging up coal, and start digging up lithium? Way to go with progress!!!

that what we humans do. consume

**bee utey** · 23rd June 2017, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by donh54

So we stop digging up coal, and start digging up lithium? Way to go with progress!!!

True dat, dig up productive farmland in NSW and Queensland to produce a product that is burned to ash just once, or dig up the WA desert to produce a material that is used a few thousand times then recycled 10 to 15 years into the future.

Lithium mines pegged to grow sevenfold as Chinese investment propels WA boom - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Sounds like progress to me!!!

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