Thread: Defect Notice for Roof Rack Lights

Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

I assume there is a fine with the defect.
If the defect is determined to be not valid by RMS, is the fine still valid and to be paid? What happens to the victim when two persons in authority disagree?

No fine Mick, just a defect notice.

The delightful Sergeant Breaden insists though, that a full vehicle inspection is required, perhaps because he didn't receive enough attention at as a child...so the cost is for the full inspection, taking time out of one's day etc. He only gives you a week to get it done too, which is a little unreasonable I think, given how busy most mechanics and inspection facilities are.

Originally Posted by The Cone of Silence

He only gives you a week to get it done too, which is a little unreasonable I think, given how busy most mechanics and inspection facilities are.

Not sure how things work in your state, but here, if you have the defect rectified and you have made an appointment for the inspection, you are allowed to continue driving. That covers the inevitable delay in inspection appointments. Might be worth looking into.

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

This Queensland Police statement is a bit confusing.

file://gcc-fs-01/StaffHomes$/mseco8128/Downloads/L153.pdf

Particularly this paragraph:

The placement of driving lamps and associated brackets must not increase the risk of injury to pedestrians. Driving lamps must not be fitted to the top of a bull bar above the forward bonnet line, or protruding forward of the bumper bar or bull bar in a way which would adversely change the profile of the impact zone.


I think there are two ways to interpret this paragraph:

1. Lightbars can't be fitted to the top of bullbars full stop

2. Lightbars can't be fitted to the top of bullbars if they are "above the forward bonnet line, or protruding forward of the bumper bar or bull bar in a way which would adversely change the profile of the impact zone".

My lightbar is below the bonnet line. My lightbar is behind the top hoop of the bull bar. I doubt if it would change the profile of the impact zone because a pedestrian would probably first hit the bull bar, not the lightbar. Does that mean a lightbar which is not above the bonnet line or protruding forward of the bumper bar or bullbar is OK mounted on top of a bullbar hoop?

Who knows?

Queensland Police have interpreted it as option 1, a flat ban on lightbars above the top hoop of the bullbar.
Spotlights and bullbars don't mix - Far North

Honestly, I think because of the wording it could take a court case to determine.

Have a look on Qld. Dept. of Transport and Main Roads web site or get a copy of their publications "Modifications - All about modifications to motor vehicles". It says "Driving lights/brackets must not protrude forward from the front face of any bumper or above the top of any bull bar." Items such as fishing rod holders must not intrude on the driver's line of sight and must be removed or retracted behind the profile of the bull bar when not in use. Must be only on the left side and carry no more than four rods. Don't fit anything that can be seen from the position of the driver's eyes.

I don't know what the rules are for roof top lights. They were definitely not approved of up until a few years ago. I personally dislike them having been dazzled by them too many times in my trucking days. They are just at the right height to be squarely in the eyes of a truck driver. That is why I liked to have a Unity spotlight on my trucks. You can swivel one to aim directly into the eyes of the oncoming mongrel who won't dip their lights. Also turn them around to shine on the mongrel behind who won't dip his lights. Check them out on Welcome to UnityUSA.com

Originally Posted by The Cone of Silence

No fine Mick, just a defect notice.

The delightful Sergeant Breaden insists though, that a full vehicle inspection is required, perhaps because he didn't receive enough attention at as a child...so the cost is for the full inspection, taking time out of one's day etc. He only gives you a week to get it done too, which is a little unreasonable I think, given how busy most mechanics and inspection facilities are.

Give KLR Automotive a call. They are at South Windsor and know Land Rovers.

Originally Posted by Gordie

Not sure how things work in your state, but here, if you have the defect rectified and you have made an appointment for the inspection, you are allowed to continue driving. That covers the inevitable delay in inspection appointments. Might be worth looking into.

I did just that Gordie; just got back from the RMS whose charming representative informed me that I had to take the blue notice back to the mechanic as he forgot to sign it. UGH. I informed them that this one example of why it's unfair that the Police give such a short time to drive while getting the defect fixed, especially for something so utterly trivial. She agreed....but the RMS and the Police don't see eye-to-eye it would appear. Way to go NSW Government! Great teamwork there.

Anyway, I was told that after the week expires, if I drive my car having not handed in the slip to the RMS yet, I would be driving 'virtually' unregistered and can do so for a month upon which time my registration will be cancelled.
'Virtually unregistered?'
'Yes'
'What does "virtually" mean?'
'It means that if you drive past a Police car, you'll be pulled over and you'll have to explain to them that you've had your defect fixed but you haven't yet submitted the form'

Thus, they give you 7 days to fix the problem but 4 weeks thereafter to take a piece of paper to the RMS. I'm going to get pulled over a LOT given the number of coppers there are roaming around Richmond and Windsor once they've had their fill of donuts.

'So I have to make another appointment, sit here for another 45 minutes waiting to be seen by someone just to hand in a piece of paper?'
'Yes'
'And you don't offer this service online, given that it's 2018, not 1998?
'No'
'Oh. Ok, see you in a few days then!'

They were lovely about it and sympathised but the process is a bit dated and the Police remain belligerent and without reasonable wiggle room in their application of authority. Whatever happened to a good old-fashioned telling off and a promise to fix something that was trusted, eh?

Times have changed since I were a lad.

However while it is hard to pin down the NSW rules - from the information listed in the thread it would seem that roof top lights are illegal in NSW - even if work lights - I guess that is open to interpretation.

The rules should be clear cut and not ambiguous but unfortunately they are not - I would be asking RMS to produce the references for any advice they have given as there is obviously a difference of opinions in the bureaucracy. I have learnt through bitter experience not to take verbal advice from the people and always get the rules written down on paper.

Best to remove the lights.

Still not sure how these were legally registered from new in all states - I wonder what your cop would do if you had one.

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Originally Posted by trout1105

My lightbar is fitted on the two top Arial mounts on my ARB bullbar, I find it a bit odd that the lightbar is Not legal fitted there But if I had 2 thumping big ariels fitted to these mounts they would be legal.
I would think that the ariels would inflict more damage than the lightbar But if a Copper decides that the lightbar shouldn't be there I would simply remove it on the spot just to keep the peace.

I don't know the rules in WA pertaining to front bar mounted antennae but in Qld. only one is permitted. It must be mounted as far as possible to the left side of the vehicle and only permitted if it is not possible to mount it elsewhere. See Qld. TMR Road Rules, and their Modifications booklet.

Every now and then Qld. Police and Transport Inspectors have a blitz on 4WD's at Rainbow Beach and the island ferries. Lots of people have their holiday plans upset when told not to drive the unroadworthy vehicle and to recover it by towing. They usually look closely at illegal lifts, oversize tyres, track modifications but lights and antennae, bull bars also come under scrutiny. "No mod plate for those alterations, Sir. Here's your fine, and a request to have it examined at the Dept's. facilities within two weeks. You will need to call a tow truck as an illegally modified vehicle is considered to be unregistered."

Originally Posted by garrycol

from the information listed in the thread it would seem that roof top lights are illegal in NSW

I disagree. I think the policeman has it wrong.

Originally Posted by garrycol

I would be asking RMS to produce the references for any advice they have given as there is obviously a difference of opinions in the bureaucracy. I have learnt through bitter experience not to take verbal advice from the people and always get the rules written down on paper.

Absolutely

Originally Posted by garrycol

Still not sure how these were legally registered from new in all states - I wonder what your cop would do if you had one.

20673139.jpg

Because they are within the rules set out by the ADRs.