Thread: The change to Autos?

The multiplication of number of gears in recent years seems to me to be a reversal of what designers have been working on as an ideal for many years. Since the start of motoring, the engine design ideal has been to have a wide band of usable torque, so that gear changing is less necessary. Some early cars were outstanding, for example the RR Silver Ghost could pull smoothly in top gear from a walking pace to top speed close to 100kh, and by WW2, virtually all cars had a wide range of torque available (not all vehicles - commercial vehicles in particular tended to have narrow torque ranges, as other design criteria were given greater priority).

The introduction of automatics made a wide torque band less of a concern, with the automatic covering up any problems and only needed two or three gears - but at the expense of fuel economy and general inefficiency. But most manufacturers sold manuals as well, so engine torque band remained wide.

Enter mandatory fuel and emissions standards. Given that we now are selling mostly automatics, torque bands take second place to these standards, and we can accept narrower torque bands if we add more gears (now cheaper to build due to manufacturing improvements).

But ten speed autos? Seems to me that this is another of these fads, a bit like the multiplicity of cylinders fad that has raised its head periodically throughout motoring history. (straight eights, V-8s, V-12s, V16s etc - even for small engines)

John

Yes, 10 speed autos seem rediculous IMO - with the ratios that close - a few hundred RPM, why not go to CVT? I would have thought this would be the best answer to having an engine with the smallest torque band and far simpler than a 10 speed box.

There are some concerns regarding wear and tear such as clutch wear from drivers either not using the clutch correctly - clutch slippage or resting their foot on the clutch pedal
An automatic can be driven manually - just select the gears that you require, however a manual cannot become an automatic
This has been necessitated by the number of people with automatic gearbox licences only
This has not added to the safety concern in any way, as a Driver Trainer, it is sometimes quite comical to see a persons reaction when you ask them to select a gear for a certain condition manually, or ask them to cut down the gears rather than using the brakes.
I sometimes wonder what these same people would do if the brakes failed for any reason.
The number of gears has increased in automatic gearboxes as opposed to manual gearboxes due to the many factors, ease of driving in congested traffic being a big concern. vehicle emissions has also pushed this development along. In terms of engine torque, smaller engines has also led to more gears and therefore the ability to keep the engine in its optimum torque band. this leads to more efficiency.
I don't think that automatic gearboxes is a trend, it is here to stay and more and more vehicles will be offered as automatic gearbox only.
Regards
XDrive

On the license bit - my Daughter can drive a manual well but has yet to get her licence - one of the reasons is that in Ballarat until around a month ago there were no driving schools that had a manual vehicle for her to take her test in. This changed just before Christmas so at least she'll be able to get a manual licence now, but she thought at one stage she would have to take it in an Auto.

Originally Posted by XDrive

There are some concerns regarding wear and tear such as clutch wear from drivers either not using the clutch correctly - clutch slippage or resting their foot on the clutch pedal
An automatic can be driven manually - just select the gears that you require, however a manual cannot become an automatic
This has been necessitated by the number of people with automatic gearbox licences only
This has not added to the safety concern in any way, as a Driver Trainer, it is sometimes quite comical to see a persons reaction when you ask them to select a gear for a certain condition manually, or ask them to cut down the gears rather than using the brakes.
I sometimes wonder what these same people would do if the brakes failed for any reason.
The number of gears has increased in automatic gearboxes as opposed to manual gearboxes due to the many factors, ease of driving in congested traffic being a big concern. vehicle emissions has also pushed this development along. In terms of engine torque, smaller engines has also led to more gears and therefore the ability to keep the engine in its optimum torque band. this leads to more efficiency.
I don't think that automatic gearboxes is a trend, it is here to stay and more and more vehicles will be offered as automatic gearbox only.
Regards
XDrive

Yes, the old if its an Auto I will never touch the gear stick except to put it in D!

A few, or many, years ago my work vehicle was an Auto GLX Land Cruiser. I was driving 4 of my staff to a conference at the Gold Coast & we had to go down the Toowoomba range.
I think that thing had a 3 speed with O/D, so at the top of the range I turned off O/D, as it got steeper I pulled it back to second for a while, then the opposite as things flattened out.
The Lady in the passenger seat looked at me oddly & asked what I was doing?
After I explained what & the why she said I didn't know you could do that, I thought if you did that the car would blow up!
I wonder who taught her to drive?
Jonesfam

All my previous 4wds before my D3 where manual, and most of my other previous cars have all been manual as well. I must say I do prefer the auto offroad. I'd hate to have an auto in a high performance car as I reckon it would take away from the driving experiance a little

I love cars, & whilst not as many as some, I've had a few.
Lots of V8s, and up until 1991 when we owned a VN Group A, they were all manuals. Then, I bought a CV8 Series 111 Monaro that was an auto,...and, apart from a Focus RS, they've ALL been autos sinse.
Like I said the CV8 was the start of autos for us, plenty of grunt, so no noticeable power loss, and just so smooth & easy to drive, I was surprised, & convinced! Then traded that on a new, built to order VZ GTO, then an AMG C63,...all autos.
Which has changed my perception of autos greatly,...remember the Hydramatics in EJ Holdens, Fordomatics in Customlines etc,...always went for a manual in those days!
But not now, Wifey has an Audi RS3,..270KW with a 7 speed DSG (basically auto!) box,....changes by itself, no clutch, but it's basically a computerised electronic manual gearbox,....but it changes by itself, quicker than one could, using a conventional manual gearbox.
Having said all that, I do like using the 6 speed in Gracie, but she's not an everydayer,...I don't think I'd be happy with her as an everydayer in Melbourne traffic......nor would I like Gracie as an auto, unless I had something a bit more powerful up front,....like an LS3!
Pickles.

Originally Posted by XDrive

however a manual cannot become an automatic

Well, not quite correct.
I have been in two vehicles (one of which I drove) in which they had automatic clutch and gear selection (controlled by a computer) on a manual gearbox. This tech has been around for some years and is available in commercially available vehicles.
The gearbox is a manual gearbox that does not have a torque converter, bands, or hydraulic fluid driving the gear changing process.