Thread: 10 Greatest engines of all time

Originally Posted by johntins

Stock, they weren't super powerful, same as the BarraT. But modded they were ballistic. But the Japanese always understated power from engines like these, due to their strange legislations. So, yes, I agree that output was higher than claimed. As for the Barra, FPV were getting an easy 310kW out of that, with a hell of a lot more available with not much spend. A friend had a G6E Turbo that was getting that at the back wheels. That was a sleeper, and no mistake.

Mercedes? AMG perhaps. They do have a rep for high outputs! Meanwhile, have a look at the Alfa 2.9 V6 in the Giulia QV. 330kW at 6500, plus 600 Nm. A true M3 killer.

Those kw/l litre were all from the upspec engines.

Ford BarraT 325kw - 81kw/l
Chev LS9 474kw - 76kw/l
Alfa 2.9T QV 375kw - 129kw/l
MB M133 280kw - 140kw/l

Interesting about the ford motors though, I thought this was really interesting about the BarraT motors and probably goes some way to explaining why when coparitive dyno testing is done that some people claim the Chev produces less power than claimed. It may be the other way around in that the Ford produces more power than claimed.

Barra 270kw.
Ford also under-quoted Barra 270T FG's power figures, Ford Engineers claim that the actual power output is close to 305kw (edit: 76kw/l). Numerous dynamometer printouts from various standard XR6s with the Turbo engine, as well as standard high 12 second passes at drag racing events from various owners Australia wide, help to back up Ford Engineers' claims.

Barra 310kw
Once again, Ford Engineers under-quoted the power figures for the F6, apart from the actual "in seat" feeling, there are numerous tests Australia wide that back up Ford Engineers' claims that the Barra 310T FG is actually closer to 350kw (edit: 88kw/l). It is rumored that Ford under-quoted all Turbo 6 figures to save face and to save the V8 models at the showroom, when delivering the V8's figures at the time.

Originally Posted by Slunnie

Those kw/l litre were all from the upspec engines.

Ford BarraT 325kw - 81kw/l
Chev LS9 474kw - 76kw/l
Alfa 2.9T QV 375kw - 129kw/l
MB M133 280kw - 140kw/l

Interesting about the ford motors though, I thought this was really interesting about the BarraT motors and probably goes some way to explaining why when coparitive dyno testing is done that some people claim the Chev produces less power than claimed. It may be the other way around in that the Ford produces more power than claimed.

I find that easy to believe. The 'Boss' V8s were not really very good, and Ford wouldn't like their V8 cred getting trashed. My step daughter has a BA XR8. My son had a BA XR6T. The 8 is supposedly 250kW, the 6 240. The XR6T would eat the XR8. The G6E T I mentioned used to chew up his brother's VE HSV GTS, except the GTS had far better brakes and those magnetic shocks. But in a straight line? No contest, something I found hard to believe until I saw it. I only drove it twice, but it lives in my memory as oh wow. The delivery started at around 1300 and just didn't stop until the valves were bouncing. You could overtake anywhere. I wanted to buy it, but my licence is my living. Sigh.

That Alfa engine has heaps more potential, BTW. It is really a Ferrari engine with two less cyls. Turbo inside the V. I want a turn!

The thing about the Barra T was the torque. From just above idle all the way to the redline, it gave al it had. That's what made it quick, of course. Amazing the ZF six speed auto coped. Which it did, admirably. One of those in my D2......

Originally Posted by Tank

The small block chev is the most overated engine ever foisted onto the gen.pop. and chev still cant getaway from pushrod OHV engines, even though now they are using a copy of the Ford FE engine of the mid 60's with extended skirt and cross bolted mains as found in the FE Ford 427's from the mid 60's. Same head port config.
Ford engines revolutionised racing with the small block Ford V8 dominating Indy racing and ending an era for Offy's and others, Same with F1, winningest engine ever in F1, destroyed Ferrari's domination in Sports car racing and Le Mans, Chev is stuck with pushrod OHV tech., Ford and the rest of the world has moved on, chevs do make good boat anchors though, Regards Frank.

Chev are quite deliberate about retaining 2 valve motors. They did test the SB as a multi-valve (as did Holden with their 308), but in Chevs case their research and testing by consumers had drivers preferring the motor in 2V spec.

Ferrari are still the most winning motor in F1, 50 wins more than Ford. Ford/Cosworth last won in F1 2003 with Giancarlo Fisichella at Brazil - a lad who I remembered from not long before this racing Go-karts with PCR in Italy!
Formula One engines - Wikipedia

But that said, the Cosworth DFV was certainly a F1 powerhouse in its day and it was then developed by Ford! This is where Ford made its mark. The Cosworth DFV brought DOHC 4v performance with architecture that allowed those cars to make the best of use of ground effects aerodynamics compared to the other motors being used.
Cosworth DFV - Wikipedia
Check this out for a dominating heritage!
Cosworth DFV - Wikipedia

I've just been reading about the history of engines and developments in Indy (as opposed to the Indy500) and Ford hardly rated a mention. from 1996 to 2016 Ford won the series in 1996 and that was the last time. GM (Olds/Chev) won for the following 6 years straight.
IndyCar Series - Wikipedia
IndyCar Series - Wikipedia

The Indy500 might be a different case though. Offenhauser (27 wins) had a massive run of winning punctuated by 6 wins of Ford. Cosworth then had 10 wins and then its been back to GM (Chev/Olds) and Honda. Interestingly though, there is a differentiation between the Cosworth motors and the Ford motors as Ford didn't own Cosworth at the time. So Ford are given credit for the motors they built and developed, and Cosworth being a seperate entity were given credit for their motors. The Ford-Cosworth codeveloped motors were credited to Ford. An interesting scenario, and much like how Ilmore build a lot of racing motors including the Mercedes F1 motor. That said, with the development of the IRL there isn't a lot of options for engines in the category and its Chev/Honda currently.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...inners#Engines

In LeMans, now that is most definitely Porsche and Audi territory, these 2 companies have dominated, especially since the start of the 70's up until now. Ford had 4 wins in the Shelby days during the late 60's and then 2 more wins with supplied engines in 1975 and 1980. Ford did break Ferraris winning streak in the early 60's but since then Porsche flew the flag and in modern times Audi have dominated up until recently.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...s#Constructors

I think Ford had their time in the sun a lot of years ago, but really it has been Cosworth that were doing the shining for them, but all of this is in open wheel racing. For comsumers I think that Fords big moment engine wise was with the 351 in the GTHO. Of the day it was probably like the Chev LS9 of today, but really they've both been left behind by the euro engines for example Audis 4.0V8 TFSI putting out a streetable 445kw/600hp in a station wagon.

Originally Posted by jonesfam

One thing I have noticed is that American style auto engines seem to need a lot of CC to get the same power &/or torque that the Europeans do with just a few CC?
Maybe wrong but my observation.
Jonesfam

Sort of, they may have the same peak power but the torque and its delivery will be very different. Mind you, with turbo development and direct petrol injection this is changing a lot and the new zinger euro motors pull from down low, especially when compared to the old tech that the Americans so love.

Originally Posted by Slunnie

Sort of, they may have the same peak power but the torque and its delivery will be very different. Mind you, with turbo development and direct petrol injection this is changing a lot and the new zinger euro motors pull from down low, especially when compared to the old tech that the Americans so love.

My point was that the Chev small block is lauded by those who know no better, as in that poll of the ten top engines, I could rattle off dozens of engines that deseve mention over the SB Chev.
I was also referring to the mostly Ford powered rear engine config. cars that took over Indy, Ford developed a twin turbo SB (260/289 windsor) 168 cu. in. engine for Indy @ 900HP, Qud Cam with exhaust headers in the Valley and Fuel Injection in the middle of the heads between the twin cam covers, others like Gurney and Weslake developed their own versions.
When I last checked Ford engines were the "winningest engine in F1", But that was a few years back now, so Ferrari may have taken over, I don't follow F1 anymore.
If I remember correctly (and I probably don't) didn't Indy or Cart or whatever they changed to had single engine suppliers and they used to change around.
Chev ran their all alloy Big Block at Le Mans at the same time as Ford/Shelby were running the 427 Side Oiler FE big blocks (Y shaped block and cross bolted mains) in the open class with the Ferrari's and the GT40's, in the Jim Hall Chapparal, even Jim admitted it was "no contest".
Chev have never been the leader in engine developement they foisted the same 1955 small block on the gen pop for decades, with no improvements, same old same old.
An interesting side bar.

"As part of General Motors' discontinuance of the Oldsmobile name, the Olds engine was rebadged as the Chevrolet starting with the 2002 season.^[23] However, the effort could not compete with the Toyota and Honda programs starting in 2003. In August 2003, Chevrolet announced to the public its "Gen IV" motor, a rebadged Cosworth motor for competition. At the time, Cosworth was owned by Ford. On November 4, 2004, Chevrolet stated that it would be ending its IRL engine program effective with the end of the 2005 season, citing costs that exceeded value, according to then GM Racing Director Doug Duchardt, "The investment did not meet our objectives."
Regards Frank.

Originally Posted by Slunnie

Ferrari are still the most winning motor in F1, 50 wins more than Ford. Ford/Cosworth last won in F1 2003 with Giancarlo Fisichella at Brazil - a lad who I remembered from not long before this racing Go-karts with PCR in Italy!
Formula One engines - Wikipedia

But that said, the Cosworth DFV was certainly a F1 powerhouse in its day and it was then developed by Ford! This is where Ford made its mark. The Cosworth DFV brought DOHC 4v performance with architecture that allowed those cars to make the best of use of ground effects aerodynamics compared to the other motors being used.
Cosworth DFV - Wikipedia
Check this out for a dominating heritage!
Cosworth DFV - Wikipedia


I think Ford had their time in the sun a lot of years ago, but really it has been Cosworth that were doing the shining for them, but all of this is in open wheel racing. For comsumers I think that Fords big moment engine wise was with the 351 in the GTHO. Of the day it was probably like the Chev LS9 of today, but really they've both been left behind by the euro engines for example Audis 4.0V8 TFSI putting out a streetable 445kw/600hp in a station wagon.

Well, Ferrari did have a purple patch after Michael and Ross turned up!

Judging the Cossie is more difficult, as they were virtually the ONLY engine for some time.

While on F1, best we remember Honda's brilliant V6 RA168-E and the even better atmo V10, the RA109-E, both short lived due to the changing regs, both utterly dominant in their time.

Drove a HO once. Sister's neighbour was a Ford Exec. A shattering car for the time. The G6E T I mentioned would eat it, but there was simply nothing like it at the time.

Originally Posted by johntins;2655104[SIZE=2

Judging the Cossie is more difficult, as they were virtually the ONLY engine for some time.

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There are several reasons for that.

Lightweight, compact, made enough grunt, etc.

Ferrari, Matra, Alfa Romeo, etc. all made more power with their 12's, but Ferrari's and Alfa's flat 12's were made obsolete by ground effects (engine got in the way of the tunnels) etc. so they went V12 for '79 on.
Renaults turbo's scorched everything else grunt wise in the late seventies/1980, particularly at altitude like Mexico, but they were difficult and unreliable but by 1980 the writing was on the wall and within a few years the turbo's dominated.

From what I've read there were other clever tuning firms in the sixties like Weslake, and Ferrari, Alfa, etc all made powerful engines, but Cosworth rewrote how efficient cylinder head and lightweight casting design should be approached.