Thread: Landcruiser & Caravan Rollover - Badly loaded ??

Originally Posted by V8Ian

No Mick, that won't work because you'll have full braking effort on the Defender too. Slide the manual control without touching the brake pedal. Good luck with that for two reasons,
A- The controller is usually mounted in a relatively inaccessible position and
B- With only a couple of inches (if you're lucky) between off and maximum, it's difficult to operate with any degree of accuracy.
The mirrors will probably be filled with black tyre smoke, but if the tail's wagging the dog, a couple of tyres are cheap in comparison to a written off car and 'van, not to mention occupant safety.

No I've actually done this and when the trailer brake controller is reading 5 the Defender hasn't locked up. Must be the way it was set up for me. The manual controller on the Tekonsha is only used to set up the display scale. After that it's done by brake pressure. This variable braking ability is the reason the Tekonsha is recommended for caravans and I chose it over others. Obviously different to a truck system.

Originally Posted by V8Ian

John, if an endorsement for towing ever got traction, it would not effect you.

No, and neither it should. I don't have anything like your experience, Ian, but I do have some...

Originally Posted by V8Ian

Sometime in the eighties Queensland introduced E6, that became Road Train. Anybody who could provide evidence of experience was upgraded. My proof was the rego papers for my prime mover.
Existing licenced car drivers would be granted similar, if not automatic rights to tow a trailer.
I don't believe small, box trailers need an endorsement.

In a sense, neither do I. A 6x4 box trailer is unlikely to take over the car. However, the same trailer can cause considerable harm if the person towing it is incapable of reversing it. And God knows, a 6x4 box trailer is about the most difficult thing in the world to reverse.

Originally Posted by V8Ian

For three years QT refused to issue me with an E4 as I hadn't been trained to drive a B Double. I was qualified to drive a 50 metre long vehicle with five articulation points, weighing 90 tonnes but not an 18 metre long vehicle weighing 55 tonne with two articulation points.

That, of course, is ridiculous, but it serves to highlight the stupidity of the system in general. My licence is MC. I have driven a 'train' on two occasions, and both times I was very well aware of my inadequacies. I also know that, given a bit of time and a few thousand ks I would be able to manage. But my licence says that I can do it, and right now I know I can't.

None of the above takes away the fact that you and I have training. The bloke in the cruiser with the van in that vid clearly does not. If he did, he would have acted on the first sway. Not like he wouldn't have felt it.

I dunno , it seems to me theres a fair bit of pointing,,
and anyone that tows unprofessionally is fair game,,

of course,, thats just how it seems to me.

I could be wrong, after all I tow unprofessionally.. which seems to be the cutoff point in this arguement---

Originally Posted by V8Ian

They do, but they are useless. Trucks (real ones) have a foot long trailer brake lever ergonomically mounted on the steering column, allowing controlled, progressive trailer braking.

They are all real trucks, Ian. It's just that some are modern European types, while others are Yank dinosaurs. I know which will win out in the end. The efficiencies of the Euros will prevail due to simple economics. I actually like both. Well, apart from SARs.

I agree wholeheartedly about the trailer brake controller though. The little lever on Volvos might as well be a switch. The late model Scanias don't have one at all. On the other hand, the brake pedal system in the Scania is a far more intelligent control interface than the treadle system found in the Yanks.

Originally Posted by johntins

I once had a (single) trailer try to overtake me at around 90kmh near Ballarat. Black ice. A pull on the trailer brake brought the thing back into line. I still left the black top, but at least I did it without the trailer joining me in the cab.

Yeh its scary... Anyone who says it isnt, is a nut... Even the thrill seekers get a fright...

Only ever been on ice once, and it was not in the cold country... Thought I spun the drive hubs but truck behind me explained it was ice... Bit un-nerving loosing traction on bitumen with a triple...Place was south of Sand fire roadhouse, for those that dont know, thats between Port Hedland and Broome...

Originally Posted by V8Ian

Good days Wraithe, I could tell some stories, but there's no statute of limitations in this country.

I think anyone who has done the miles we do, have seen a lot... Just about every trip is an adventure of some sorts...

Originally Posted by johntins

They are all real trucks, Ian. It's just that some are modern European types, while others are Yank dinosaurs. I know which will win out in the end. The efficiencies of the Euros will prevail due to simple economics. I actually like both. Well, apart from SARs.

I agree wholeheartedly about the trailer brake controller though. The little lever on Volvos might as well be a switch. The late model Scanias don't have one at all. On the other hand, the brake pedal system in the Scania is a far more intelligent control interface than the treadle system found in the Yanks.

Got to disagree... Modern trucks, post 1990 are not real trucks...

The pre electrics where real, real hard work, real heavy, real tough and would really break your body in time...

My list starts with one I owned, other 2 out of respect and working with them...

Kenworth W model, til I owned one, thought they where cowboy trucks, I never looked back after that bus, could drive all day and still feel like I had only driven around the block...

Mack Superliner, tough and incredible off road, mind you that is a Mack trait back then... Those V8's cant be bargained with, they just pull all day and love it...

White Road boss, this one roads up the top 3, just another work horse like the other 2, only issue with them was they rattled too much...

Ford LTL tried to get into this group but I dont like them much...

The V8 shopping trolleys weren't too bad but they had issues I dont want in a truck...

Going back to the thread,

It dont matter if you have driven 10 million k's or 10 thousand, the mind of the driver is what counts and experience long term, only happens because the driver had the sense to be cautious even when he has done a lot of driving... You need to be cautious at all times and towing something that you never towed before requires you to be cautious and dont get over confident...

The most experienced and respected truck drivers on the road dont just get in the truck and drive off, he will check everything he can before moving...
Checking the load if loaded or even checking an empty trailer, couplings, lights etc etc...

Towing a trailer behind a vehicle requires the same effort for a box trailer as for a triple or quad roadtrain...

The skill set starts exactly the same, there is no one ever born with the skill to drive anything...

This discussion about towing trailers from box trailers to triple roadtrains brings about a lot of information that can be passed on and hopefully make towing a safer avenue when going down the road...

At the end of the day, we all want to be able to get home safely...

This old dumb ex truck driver is off to watch some tv...