Thread: engines of yesteryear

Originally Posted by hodgo

The Commer knocker a 6 cylinder horizontally motor was a very impressive I always felt in its day I never had the opportunity to drive one they would lug down to a very low RPM and not falter The design was something never copied I often wounder what they would b e like today if Roots group had of kept producing them A real work horse

Just to correct this - they were actually three cylinder, six piston, two stroke. There was a four cylinder version, but I don't know that it ever made it into production.

As other posts have mentiuoned, there have been a wide variety of opposed piston engines, usually two stroke diesels, produced over the last 120 years, but it has to be admitted that the Commer knocker is just about the only really successful one used in cars or trucks, certainly the only one ever seen here. They were very successful in our environment because they were a reasonably affordable diesel in a medium sized truck in an era where almost all their competitors had no diesel option, or where it existed it was very expensive, heavy and lower power, in an era when trucks were not big on power anyway.. The fact that the low engine height enabled one of the first really successful cab-over designs probably helped as well.

They were used widely, sometimes in roles for which they were not really suited. The engine was discontinued after Chrysler bought the Rootes group, probably because it had no wider applications in Chrysler as a whole - or perhaps because the new management didn't want to be associated with anything that weird!

Originally Posted by JDNSW

Just to correct this - they were actually three cylinder, six piston, two stroke. There was a four cylinder version, but I don't know that it ever made it into production.

As other posts have mentiuoned, there have been a wide variety of opposed piston engines, usually two stroke diesels, produced over the last 120 years, but it has to be admitted that the Commer knocker is just about the only really successful one used in cars or trucks, certainly the only one ever seen here. They were very successful in our environment because they were a reasonably affordable diesel in a medium sized truck in an era where almost all their competitors had no diesel option, or where it existed it was very expensive, heavy and lower power, in an era when trucks were not big on power anyway.. The fact that the low engine height enabled one of the first really successful cab-over designs probably helped as well.

They were used widely, sometimes in roles for which they were not really suited. The engine was discontinued after Chrysler bought the Rootes group, probably because it had no wider applications in Chrysler as a whole - or perhaps because the new management didn't want to be associated with anything that weird!

The Commer knocker had 3 cylinders and 6 pistons 2 connecting rods that were attached to rocker shaft at the top an d the bottom attached to another connection rod that was attached to the crank shaft. when the two piston closed on each other you had the power stroke.
I am currently in hospital and when I get home I have a very good drawing as to how the work I will try and post

Originally Posted by JDNSW

Just to correct this - they were actually three cylinder, six piston, two stroke. There was a four cylinder version, but I don't know that it ever made it into production.

As other posts have mentiuoned, there have been a wide variety of opposed piston engines, usually two stroke diesels, produced over the last 120 years, but it has to be admitted that the Commer knocker is just about the only really successful one used in cars or trucks, certainly the only one ever seen here. They were very successful in our environment because they were a reasonably affordable diesel in a medium sized truck in an era where almost all their competitors had no diesel option, or where it existed it was very expensive, heavy and lower power, in an era when trucks were not big on power anyway.. The fact that the low engine height enabled one of the first really successful cab-over designs probably helped as well.

They were used widely, sometimes in roles for which they were not really suited. The engine was discontinued after Chrysler bought the Rootes group, probably because it had no wider applications in Chrysler as a whole - or perhaps because the new management didn't want to be associated with anything that weird!

As usual you're right John, the Knocker's official designation was TS 3. A TS4 was designed and built but never put into production. I think it was Chrysler's purchase of the Rootes Group that killed off the TS 4.
Leyland also used an horizontally opposed engine in a military tank.

Leyland with the tank engine ......I think was called the L60 was not successful in that it is not reliable and did not make rated power for many reasons.....the main one was that Leyland designed it.
The Rolls Royce K60 was successful in Military and civie applications ( not in Australia).
It is reliable, easy to fix and made rated power.........in fact the power to weight , fuel burn of the turbo civie motors was much better than any other similar size diesel of the time.
The shaft out put speed as 3750 rpm so it could replace petrol truck engines without regearing the truck.(size profile was small too)
If failed to sell on the civie market in great numbers due to cost and being very different for its day.
In military service the K60 250 HP multi fuel opposed piston 6 cylinder supercharged motor has only been replaced in the last ten years in British army service after beening introduced in the mid 1960s.
They sound like a Two stroke GM motor in operation, but not as noisey and run perfectly smooth and had no problem pushing around 15 tonnes of armored tracked vehicle around in a hot compartment and auto slush box.
It is a brillant design and should have sold better than it did.

G'day Ian, just to elucidate on the Commer "knocker"
T.S .actually stands for Tilling Stevens ,the maker. designer of this engine ,in fact T.S. also made trucks , and to further complicate matters ,the supercharger fitted to this engine was made by Roots ,not to be confused with Rootes .

PS We are in Adelaide at present , wherebelong you ?

Dave

Originally Posted by Hogarthde

G'day Ian, just to elucidate on the Commer "knocker"
T.S .actually stands for Tilling Stevens ,the maker. designer of this engine ,in fact T.S. also made trucks , and to further complicate matters ,the supercharger fitted to this engine was made by Roots ,not to be confused with Rootes .

PS We are in Adelaide at present , wherebelong you ?

Dave

See my post #15 in this thread!

Originally Posted by Wraithe

Heard some stories off my father about the Commer...

Commer engine, horizontally opposing pistons, 2 conrods each piston and a rocker between the rods, one crank... 2 stroke diesel... There is a couple in a shed near Perth(bullsbrook), 2 where going 20 years ago and a couple outside for spares...

Never got to work on one but have heard both good and bad reports about working on them...You would never break a speed record in one tho...

I de-coked one many years ago, when I was still young and fit! It belonged to the brickworks at Waterloo near Bunbury. Don't recall it being difficult to work on. A couple of years ago at an old car show, maybe Northam, maybe Waroona, a bloke had one there rigged up on a trailer. He would not start
it up because of the racket it made! Peters Creamery at Brunswick Junction had several of them, in fact one was featured as a logo on their advertising.

Originally Posted by Hogarthde

PS We are in Adelaide at present , wherebelong you ?

Dave

We left Adelaide on Monday, slowly meandering back to Queensland . St George tonight and if nothing distracts us, home tomorrow.
I wish I'd known you were in Adelaide, it would have been good to catch up again.