Thread: Out of work again

no our problem is not 457 visa or any visa that allows workers in.

the problem is our economy is not complex enough so with out complexity we have an economy that is based on ether getting something out of the ground or you are in retail/service and there is only so much growth available and their is none left.

all economies that are growing and improving their quality of life for their people are all complex economies, and guess what australia's economy has been getting less complex and our standerd of living is dropping
our economy is flanked by Jamaica and Chilie so atm that's where we are heading for our wages and standerd of living

here is a picture of what our economie is as you can see over half of it is digging stuff out of the ground
2012_Australia_Products_Export_Treemap.png

Originally Posted by Ean Austral

Any system that allows people from another country to work here is part of the problem , it don't matter if its 457, student or just a general work visa, it all contributes to someone looking for a job having more competition .


I don't need to justify anything , just telling you how it is from our industry. Like it or not , its the system and until its changed people will use it.

Cheers Ean

Hi Ean ,I was referring to many with the justify comment.
Businesses will extract every piece of profit that they can, without high standards and regulations the lowest common denominator comes into play in labour and materials. With the old compete chestnut being drawn out time and time again.
Who's to blame?
Those who make the rules.
Who were the winners out of the 457 visas?
My guess is big business, and the people who took the low paid/ high paid( to them) jobs.
Who were the losers?
Everyone else?
Higher management see value in cheap labour, middle managers see value in experienced labour, who will win?

Originally Posted by fitzy

Hi Ean ,I was referring to many with the justify comment.
Businesses will extract every piece of profit that they can, without high standards and regulations the lowest common denominator comes into play in labour and materials. With the old compete chestnut being drawn out time and time again. In all fairness , people go into business to make money. Sadly majority of people in this country buy on price first everything else second causing all businesses to cut costs where they can. this has been done to death on here so I will end there.

Who's to blame? We all are , from Government thru to the consumer. I always think of Dick Smith, like him or loathe him , the people never supported him when he tried to support the local farmers because his products were more expensive.
Those who make the rules.
Who were the winners out of the 457 visas?
My guess is big business, and the people who took the low paid/ high paid( to them) jobs. I have put my point forward but dare say many have used the system for financial benefit.
Who were the losers?
Everyone else? The losers were the genuine people who wanted employment , plenty are happy to use the 457 case as an excuse because they are to lazy to work

Higher management see value in cheap labour, middle managers see value in experienced labour, who will win?

Very true , usually because 2nd tier managers have actually done the job so understand that age is not always the deciding factor. There are no winners here , all it does is drive the wedge further between employers and the rest of the population.

I have said it before , my belief is that as a country we want to be paid top $$ but want to pay the cheapest for everything else. Till this mindset changes we will continue to see companies take labour offshore, because its cheaper than we can do it here, thus costing us more jobs. It doesn't help anyone who is trying to find work, and I wish them well

My answers in RED and of course these are my views.

Cheers Ean

I never worried about having a career with just one employer or by doing just one type of thing. Had over 50 jobs at last count. Did an apprenticeship and worked at that trade sometimes, but worked at many other things besides.
I've driven taxis and owned them as well here and the UK. Good at times, bad at others but kept money coming in.
Lost jobs sometimes because I'm a bit pig headed and don't take orders from idiots. Chucked in others for much the same reason.
Used to tell people I was a pro golfer when I had jobs I could disappear on and play golf or just drink beer....
Regretted losing a job just once. Site manager used a trivial thing to sack me and then shafted me when ever he could with possible employers I applied for jobs with. That cost me 12 months work and I couldn't work out why the ***** would do it.
Found out later on another job that he'd thought I was up to no good when he was off-site...... enough said about that but it was untrue anyway.
Lose a job and move on, plenty of other stuff to do even if it involves a possible down grading in your own mind of self worth.
Good luck with the job hunting though but don't tie yourself just to the mining industry.
AlanH.

With you there ATH...when I have found that I dislike a job, I move on...when am bored in a job, I move on...etc....have had lots of different jobs and businesses....can't ever imagine being in one job all my life...but horses for courses. Have always found a job quickly, knocking on doors etc, they are out there if you want them bad enough.

hey could be worse

sister in-law done a degree and started a phd in bio med science specializing in Alzheimer research and possible cell repair ( so nothing we dont really need or anything) until the teachers their started screwing her around as she was not one of the favorites.
cant get any employment in a lab or anywhere to continue her research (which their has been further research done based off her findings and papers) and its the same for all of her classmates that she has spoken too.

so she has been applying for sign writer apprenticeships as she has given up on anything to do with lab/research work unless she is prepared to move to america which she had offers of since her papers need to be sent their to be verified as correct as no one in Australia could.

so after i think 8 years of uni she is applying for something she could of done 14 years ago because of a lack of funding from government and a lack of Australian companies, so rather then trying to get our best and brightest to rise up and help us they are applying to become sign-writers.........

for what its worth i have never been unemployed since i left school unless i wanted to be worked in the mines found i earned the same as did back in melb and moved back, but i have always been happy to move to where ever the work is and in this day and age if you are not prepared to follow the work then you are not going to find it. but that is as a diesel mechanic for something where you have been to uni and got a degree for well your screwed in Australia as all those industry's are shrinking

I agree with those who say our economy has become too simple. We are not investing enough in R and D and have undermined the viability of complex industries such as manufacturing. Closing the car industry is a good example of short-sighted thinking.
We are also undermining our skills by cutting TAFE funding to the point where the fulltime staff who knew what they were doing were replaced by casuals who are just ticking boxes. TAFEs are being closed and replaced with rooms of computers, but watching a video does not mean a person has really learned a skill, they have to actually do it and demonstrate competence.
My organization is taking courses which were outsourced and done poorly back in-house do we can do them properly.
The mining industry is not enough to sustain our economy. We have to do complex tasks long-term to be prosperous. Definitely don't copy the USA, which has followed a very bad path. Germany is a much better model to copy.

I spent 15 years in the construction industry in Melbourne as a foreman, so I had the occasional industrial dispute.
Something the cfmeu would say is, these are your labour costs and conditions for the next 3 years , the materials are stipulated some are locally sourced.
Price the job, you have to build it smarter than the next guy, not by cutting wages.
The building in Melbourne doesn't stop, it's a level playing field, high wages high standards.
I'd had enough of the work load and went traveling around oz for a year, got back and spent a year looking for a good job, it was quite disheartening as it just wasn't as easy as when I was 30. Lucky I found one, but the standards aren't as high.
I had a crane truck the other day doing a delivery, the driver was on a 457, he overloaded the crane and did not even understand why it would not work. He would stand underneath a load until I told him not to.
It was cheaper to get him on a four hour minimum than use our own tilt tray and forklift.
Crane trucks aren't working in the city and I would have a Franna crane and dogman, I hope I don't get pushed under the bus when the excreta passes through air distribution device.