Thread: Out of work again

Originally Posted by CraigE

Seiously?? The jobs you highlighted are all legal compliance and necessary. HR recruit without that no staff especially in compamies that have hundreds of staff, OHS needed in my experience or there are workers put at significant risk, what I could say on that alone that would substantiate this is amazing, but cant due to confidentiality and enviros? If you saw the work that went into some of this as well for legal and statutory compliance. Mostly not over manned now with minimal OHS and Enviro personnel. Shows your distinct lack of understanding and professionalism around this area Alan. I have been in OHS for the last 15 years, mainly emergency response, but also with some OHS duties as well as security. Tell me you don't need my services when you are 50 - 500kms form the nearest hospital? Have a volunteer Fire & Rescue Response some 50-500kms away that often don't or cant respond? Had a case just this week where a community member would have passed away if we had not been available.
It is statements like the below that result in fatalities and injuries in many workplaces and breaches swept under the carpet.
Each role has its own and necessary place from on the floor workers, to OHS to management.

I agree that many of those jobs in OHS and the regulations behind them are necessary but there are many especially the "eco advisers" positions which definitely aren't. No one should go to work and be in danger.
However, I know 2 people who were engaged in that area who when the GFC really hit they lost positions which one even admitted was more admin. and showing off than actually doing anything worthwhile. She loved to be seen walking around with her hard hat and boots on but only when it wasn't too hot outside the office.
I remember listening to a geo. and reading what he said as well about the lunacy him and his offsider had to go through before going bush to do their job. By lunacy I mean the checks to see if they were sober first (that's OK with me and him) but the checkers having to check each other first to determine that were fit to check the geos....
My son has worked in mines for well over 25 years and says the same as many others do, common sense has gone out the window with the sheer amount of regulations for things which at one time, not that long ago, were a matter of that common sense. And if you didn't show that or respect for normal safe work practices or were a danger to others, you got sent down the road.
And I know that from my own experiences as well. Yes I do appreciate the job that you did and well remember a mate getting smashed in the face by a piece of machinery and apart from basic on-site nursing having to wait hours for the RFD to arrive. to take him out.
But whatever you say the huge increase in jobsworths in the mines and elsewhere are unsustainable jobs and un-necessary.
Maybe you'll have more success in employment if you go for something you wouldn't normally contemplate which involves sleeping in a bed other than your own ....
AlanH.

Further to the above, it appears from your previous posts that you've never worked anywhere actually remote anyway! Esperance, Kambalda, Ravensthorpe!!! Are you kidding?
So really no one on sites where you were had to wait for many hours before help arrived professional help arrived.
AlanH.

Hey, guys, let's not turn this into a ****ing competition.

Move on.

Originally Posted by ATH

Further to the above, it appears from your previous posts that you've never worked anywhere actually remote anyway! Esperance, Kambalda, Ravensthorpe!!! Are you kidding?
So really no one on sites where you were had to wait for many hours before help arrived professional help arrived.
AlanH.

Lets be clear first the post was never about my particular job, relevance or necessity. It was about myself and approx. 500 others being out of work including OHS professionals, Engineers, Enviros, HR, Process Operators, mining Operators, Dril and Blast etc. You have turned it into a degradation of some professions.
This is certainly not having a shot though you need some clarification.
I have not worked remote? Newman, Area C, Karratha, Carosue Dam, Leinster, Norseman often looking after multiple mines and the towns themselves. not remote enough? Maybe Wodgina soon? Even Kambalda, Lanfranchi (some 100kms from a hospital) and Ravensthorpe we would transport to hospital whether Ravey, Esperance, Albany or RFDS. Most of these towns actually relied on us. Often these hospitals don't have a doctor at certain times so we cannot transport to them and will not accept emergency patients. No help arriving at some of these that I can assure you. Even in Kalgoorlie we were expected to take care of our own and transport. The only assistance we got was from RFDS. All others including medical, fire and rescue are dealt with by us. Most of these places have volunteer ambos and fire response with less quals and skill than us and often are unable to respond or don't respond. Sorry but we rely on our selves for the most part to get them to next care RFDS aside, but have to wait many hours for them sometimes days, even at Ravensthorpe. You are grossly misinformed and on numerous occasions I have been asked to control scenes attended by inexperienced Fire & Rescue, Ambulance crews, Main Roads and even Police.
I could list so many times even within response distance for Ambulance, Fire& Rescue and Police that they have not responded and we have dealt with it.
I can tell you for a fact a young gentleman would not be alive this week if we were not available and he did not even work onn the mine site. We continually assist communities where we work and live. So much other stuff that a grade 2 ambo volunteer could not deal with either.
The reason most of these jobs exist is because Mines Regs/Acts and WHS/OHS Regs/Acts are written in blood because there is very little common sense. The stats speak for themselves with mining fatalities down and serious injuries as well as implications from injuries reducing as we have emergency response and quality OHS. And guess what the industries where this has not reduced are those that don't take it seriously.
As for your mate what would have been the result without onsite intervention? Likely much worse.
Then you hint at FFW, well that is a requirement because of idiots that cannot manage their own FFW. It would astound you the number of people who still run the gauntlet. Yeah I would love to do a high risk job with someone under the influence of alcohol or drugs.
Where do you want me to also list the additional tasks we undertake such as training site in medical and emergency response, burning off, assisting and conducting high risk rope and confined space work, auditing for compliance.
Again this has come about because there is no common sense as you imply in the past there was, which is utter tripe as the amount of injuries, near misses and significant incidents that previously did not get reported is well known. All of these rules have been implemented because people in fact have very little common sense.
Maybe you should spend some time in a coroners court and tell the family of a fatality, common sense should have saved their life.
Sorry but common sense is actually uncommon, because if it was common people would not get injured.
Then for your last line, you have no idea. I have only worked in 3 places where I was in my own bed, Kambalda (still 55kms from a decent hospital and when I work locally in Perth again still at one site 50kms form closest hospital and often no local ambulances to respond) & Newman (where we often responded to all incidents) the rest have all been FIFO jobs.
Your lack of understanding for these jobs is very apparent. You also don't have any idea what one death can cost a company financially and commercially.

Oh and I take huge exception for your inference that we are not professionals and have to wait for professional help. That is utter garbage. I have equivalent quals to a road paramedic (which don't exist in country stations in WA except for occasional community paramedics) and fire and rescue quals equivalent to fire services. Most of the people that respond in country WA are infact not professionals but volunteers, so maybe get that correct as well. Even in regional centres such as Karratha there is only 1 community paramedic and the rest are volunteers. On top of that most of us do or have volunteered as well as doing the job in a PROFESSIONAL capacity.

What is your job Allan? As I am sure we could say the same about your job role.


The whole post was never about what we did and why we did it, just about another mine shutting down and 500 more people and flow on services looking for work.

Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

Hey, guys, let's not turn this into a ****ing competition.

Move on.

Not a ****ing competition Mick. I just detest people that have no real comprehension of what OHS (inc emergency and OHS compliance), HR and Enviros actually do. Its a bit like saying we don't need Police. Seems though we are their first point of call with any issue.
Why the OHS role is evolving into and advisory role putting the onus back on line.

OH&S has come a long way since my early days on a Minesite when the Security blokes were the ambos and we never heard of Mine rescue in an open pit, We did "Tag Out" but that was just a case of tying a tag to a valve or a switch.
We also only did 8hr shifts Not 12-14hrs
I am an Ex Mill Reliner and have spent many years on remote (and I Do mean Remote) sites and I have found that the OH&S people could be a pain in the arse at times But if the **** ever hit the fan these were the people that would be the first on the scene and it was very reassuring knowing their level of professionalism and dedication would be invaluable in times of need.
There are dickheads in every business But for some strange reason they tend to gravitate to Minesites and without the OH&S crew it would be a Bloodbath.

Hang in there CraigE the Mining game is cyclic and good OH&S people are hard to find.

Originally Posted by CraigE

Lets be clear first the post was never about my particular job, relevance or necessity. It was about myself and approx. 500 others being out of work including OHS professionals, Engineers, Enviros, HR, Process Operators, mining Operators, Dril and Blast etc. You have turned it into a degradation of some professions.
This is certainly not having a shot though you need some clarification.
I have not worked remote? Newman, Area C, Karratha, Carosue Dam, Leinster, Norseman often looking after multiple mines and the towns themselves. not remote enough? Maybe Wodgina soon? Even Kambalda, Lanfranchi (some 100kms from a hospital) and Ravensthorpe we would transport to hospital whether Ravey, Esperance, Albany or RFDS. Most of these towns actually relied on us. Often these hospitals don't have a doctor at certain times so we cannot transport to them and will not accept emergency patients. No help arriving at some of these that I can assure you. Even in Kalgoorlie we were expected to take care of our own and transport. The only assistance we got was from RFDS. All others including medical, fire and rescue are dealt with by us. Most of these places have volunteer ambos and fire response with less quals and skill than us and often are unable to respond or don't respond. Sorry but we rely on our selves for the most part to get them to next care RFDS aside, but have to wait many hours for them sometimes days, even at Ravensthorpe. You are grossly misinformed and on numerous occasions I have been asked to control scenes attended by inexperienced Fire & Rescue, Ambulance crews, Main Roads and even Police.
I could list so many times even within response distance for Ambulance, Fire& Rescue and Police that they have not responded and we have dealt with it.
I can tell you for a fact a young gentleman would not be alive this week if we were not available and he did not even work onn the mine site. We continually assist communities where we work and live. So much other stuff that a grade 2 ambo volunteer could not deal with either.
The reason most of these jobs exist is because Mines Regs/Acts and WHS/OHS Regs/Acts are written in blood because there is very little common sense. The stats speak for themselves with mining fatalities down and serious injuries as well as implications from injuries reducing as we have emergency response and quality OHS. And guess what the industries where this has not reduced are those that don't take it seriously.
As for your mate what would have been the result without onsite intervention? Likely much worse.
Then you hint at FFW, well that is a requirement because of idiots that cannot manage their own FFW. It would astound you the number of people who still run the gauntlet. Yeah I would love to do a high risk job with someone under the influence of alcohol or drugs.
Where do you want me to also list the additional tasks we undertake such as training site in medical and emergency response, burning off, assisting and conducting high risk rope and confined space work, auditing for compliance.
Again this has come about because there is no common sense as you imply in the past there was, which is utter tripe as the amount of injuries, near misses and significant incidents that previously did not get reported is well known. All of these rules have been implemented because people in fact have very little common sense.
Maybe you should spend some time in a coroners court and tell the family of a fatality, common sense should have saved their life.
Sorry but common sense is actually uncommon, because if it was common people would not get injured.
Then for your last line, you have no idea. I have only worked in 3 places where I was in my own bed, Kambalda (still 55kms from a decent hospital and when I work locally in Perth again still at one site 50kms form closest hospital and often no local ambulances to respond) & Newman (where we often responded to all incidents) the rest have all been FIFO jobs.
Your lack of understanding for these jobs is very apparent. You also don't have any idea what one death can cost a company financially and commercially.

Oh and I take huge exception for your inference that we are not professionals and have to wait for professional help. That is utter garbage. I have equivalent quals to a road paramedic (which don't exist in country stations in WA except for occasional community paramedics) and fire and rescue quals equivalent to fire services. Most of the people that respond in country WA are infact not professionals but volunteers, so maybe get that correct as well. Even in regional centres such as Karratha there is only 1 community paramedic and the rest are volunteers. On top of that most of us do or have volunteered as well as doing the job in a PROFESSIONAL capacity.

What is your job Allan? As I am sure we could say the same about your job role.


The whole post was never about what we did and why we did it, just about another mine shutting down and 500 more people and flow on services looking for work.

Well, to be fair - seems like Alan is right. Without you there would be more jobs for everyone else. It's just that when the new kid asks why the job is open it's a bit of a darker conversation.