Sadly our history has some very dark parts

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

It's not true to say that Aboriginals have 'no traditional idea of land ownership.' They have a very strong idea of land ownership, but they express it differently to us because the tribes were nomadic and moved about, rather than building settlements and farms.
Their traditional lifestyle is also quite different to ours. There are successful stations, but remember that their traditional objective is not to farm like us, but to subsist on the land, so what looks like neglect to us is not neglect to them. There are two quite different concepts of how to manage land, so we can't judge one by the other. They probably think we neglect our land by not following their traditional practices.
Anyway, we can't undo the past invasion, dispossession and decimation, but we sure could get a lot smarter about how to achieve harmony for the future. For example, every time we hear outrage over the serious problems in Aboriginal communities such as drunkenness, violence, abuse etc., remember that they are symptoms of the breakdown of their traditional society caused by our invasion.
The answer isn't to force them to become more like us, but rather to assist them to re-establish positive elements of their traditional lifestyle. It has been done in other places, including New Zealand, so it is possible, but only if we in the dominant society get smarter in our appreciation of what's really involved.
For example, sending in the army or police is not the answer, it's just a repeat of the mistakes of the past. Helping communities to become self-governing and self-regulating would be a step in the right direction. It's certainly very difficult because the situation is such a mess, but it could only help.

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It was drummed into me from a young age that I be accountable for my actions, if I **** up , then own up and take the punishment and learn from it. How long are we going to continue to blame the "White Fella " for the continued actions of people in Aboriginal communities. Isnt it time as a community they started to address the problems themselves.?

In the NT most communities are dry , so what happens , the people from the communities come into town and drink themselves stupid and live basically where they fall. They then humbug people for money when they have none left and are quite happy to call you every white so & so, and remind you that its THIER land when you refuse. Various NT governments have tried all sorts of things like night patrols, pick them up and return them to their communities if they are remote from Darwin , they now want to build more sober up shelters to address the itinerants as they are now called. So more and more money gets thrown at it because for some strange reason its OUR problem.

There are good and bad in all races of people but to continue down the road of this somehow being OUR problem and people not being accountable for their actions , and the communities seem happy to not address the problem either - just blame the government for not fixing a problem.

Just how it seems to me , and I have spent enough time at various communities over the years as well.

Cheers Ean

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Originally Posted by rick130

Have you read that one Ian?
Did his arguments hold up?
Looks like it would be an interesting read.

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Rick, I haven't yet read the book, it's on my list.
There was an interview on (ABC) Conversations, last year, with Bruce Pascoe about the book. A very interesting programme; Bruce is an extremely intelligent, highly educated man with a terrific sense of humour.

From the interview, "I'm a snoboriginal."

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Originally Posted by Ean Austral

It was drummed into me from a young age that I be accountable for my actions, if I **** up , then own up and take the punishment and learn from it. How long are we going to continue to blame the "White Fella " for the continued actions of people in Aboriginal communities. Isnt it time as a community they started to address the problems themselves.?

In the NT most communities are dry , so what happens , the people from the communities come into town and drink themselves stupid and live basically where they fall. They then humbug people for money when they have none left and are quite happy to call you every white so & so, and remind you that its THIER land when you refuse. Various NT governments have tried all sorts of things like night patrols, pick them up and return them to their communities if they are remote from Darwin , they now want to build more sober up shelters to address the itinerants as they are now called. So more and more money gets thrown at it because for some strange reason its OUR problem.

There are good and bad in all races of people but to continue down the road of this somehow being OUR problem and people not being accountable for their actions , and the communities seem happy to not address the problem either - just blame the government for not fixing a problem.

Just how it seems to me , and I have spent enough time at various communities over the years as well.

Cheers Ean

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I agree. Support the tribal leaders to reassume authority over their communities and apply tribal law. They need to take back control. Outsiders can't do it, it has to come from within the tribe.

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

I agree. Support the tribal leaders to reassume authority over their communities and apply tribal law. They need to take back control. Outsiders can't do it, it has to come from within the tribe.

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You still don't "get it", In Australia we ALL belong to the same Tribe.

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

I agree. Support the tribal leaders to reassume authority over their communities and apply tribal law. They need to take back control. Outsiders can't do it, it has to come from within the tribe.

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No, the problem is "they" can't do it,.....and this is the problem which has been proven time & time again, "they" can't do it, and there are many of "them" that admit to this,....but some, with more "influence", overwhelm these well meaning people, with the result that the situation is not improved at all, but is getting worse, despite ever increasing dollars thrown at it.
A recent survey about the amount of dollars (most in Aussie) thrown at Northern Australian communities, revealed absolutely the worst results per dollar in Aussie,....dollars is not the answer,... ,I know what is,....I would like to hear the views of others before I reveal.
Finally, just have to say, there are views from absolutely opposite "sides" here,....I know mine are different from many, so I'd just like to commend all members from getting "personal" against each other. I disagree vigorously with some comments on this thread,.....I hope respectably.
Pickles.

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

I agree. Support the tribal leaders to reassume authority over their communities and apply tribal law. They need to take back control. Outsiders can't do it, it has to come from within the tribe.

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Sorry Mick , maybe 30 yrs ago that may have worked if it was tried. My belief is most of the younger generation of indigenous people couldn't give a stuff about the elders and the traditions.

I base this on the 2 or so yrs I was involved in a program called "Sentenced to a Job" and it was designed to get non violent criminal to start to get ready for the outside world by being allowed out on day release to get used to the idea of working. You could get 3 different types of people under the scheme - Salt water people ( mostly aboriginals from the island areas ) - Desert people ( mostly aboriginals from the interior) and the white fellas. They wouldn't mix them as they would argue.

I always got the aboringinals , and every time I would sit down with them at lunch and chat , I would ask if they were looking forward to going back on country - the younger ones ( Under 25ish ) weren't interested in going back , they liked the idea of the city life and everything that went with it. Nothing to do on country, too boring etc etc . I employed them over about 2 yrs and sadly it didn't seem to be much different no matter who I spoke to or where they were from. The program fell apart due to admin issues so I no longer use them. Google the program if you want to find out more.

I am all for people living where they want , and if that's On Country in whatever part of this great land, so be it. But its 1 country and 1 law , and that applies if your white , black , yellow , pink or whatever your religion may be.

That's how I see it from what I have seen and done in my life , and if I am wrong then I would like to see the Elders start to get out there and start doing some of what you speak. Most of the outspoken so called leaders I have come across in my time speak out about all and sundry then get a job in Canberra and do absolutely stuff all except enjoy the gravy train like all the others do.

Cheers Ean

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Originally Posted by Ean Austral

Sorry Mick , maybe 30 yrs ago that may have worked if it was tried. My belief is most of the younger generation of indigenous people couldn't give a stuff about the elders and the traditions.

I base this on the 2 or so yrs I was involved in a program called "Sentenced to a Job" and it was designed to get non violent criminal to start to get ready for the outside world by being allowed out on day release to get used to the idea of working. You could get 3 different types of people under the scheme - Salt water people ( mostly aboriginals from the island areas ) - Desert people ( mostly aboriginals from the interior) and the white fellas. They wouldn't mix them as they would argue.

I always got the aboringinals , and every time I would sit down with them at lunch and chat , I would ask if they were looking forward to going back on country - the younger ones ( Under 25ish ) weren't interested in going back , they liked the idea of the city life and everything that went with it. Nothing to do on country, too boring etc etc . I employed them over about 2 yrs and sadly it didn't seem to be much different no matter who I spoke to or where they were from. The program fell apart due to admin issues so I no longer use them. Google the program if you want to find out more.

I am all for people living where they want , and if that's On Country in whatever part of this great land, so be it. But its 1 country and 1 law , and that applies if your white , black , yellow , pink or whatever your religion may be.

That's how I see it from what I have seen and done in my life , and if I am wrong then I would like to see the Elders start to get out there and start doing some of what you speak. Most of the outspoken so called leaders I have come across in my time speak out about all and sundry then get a job in Canberra and do absolutely stuff all except enjoy the gravy train like all the others do.

Cheers Ean

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BRILLIANT post.......and based on reality.
Thank You, Pickles.

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Originally Posted by Pickles2

Well said, I agree 100%.
Pickles.

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I disagree 100%

Less than 200 years ago, the continent currently called Australia didn't have one name. This continent has always comprised more than 200 distinct nations and languages, similar to Europe or Africa. ...It still is if you care to listen and learn.

The notion of one country (the past 100 years or so) is a veneer and frankly quite ridiculous in the context of 60,000 + years as a multinational continent.

We all belong here, but it's our diversity which makes us interesting, not our homogenisation to some kind of concocted immature culture based on neo-colonial narcissism.

I have done maintenance work on remote settlements in the NT and have also worked on Melville Island with a group of Aboriginals on the Work for the Dole programme.
Ean is spot on the money with his post and as he has had first hand experience with this (Unlike the vast majority here) He actually Knows what he is talking about So people please get your Facts right before hitting the keyboard people.
Well said Ean [thumbsupbig]