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Thread: Sadly our history has some very dark parts

  1. #41
    DiscoMick Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipA View Post
    The Mabo judgment was made over the land rights of Torres Strait islanders who have a completely different culture of land ownership to Aboriginals who AFAIK have NO traditional idea of land ownership.

    Nevertheless about 50% of Australia has now been gifted to Aboriginals by "progressive" governments and judiciary and other citizens of Australia have been in many cases banned from visiting these places , or requiring permits.

    In most cases where land has been given to aboriginals as cleared productive land like operating cattle and sheep stations it has quickly fallen into disrepair causing the "giftees" to return to their life of indolence on the dole.

    The great "heist" of requiring mining companies to give royalties to the "giftees" for non existent claims over vast tracts of land where they may or may not have wandered aimfully in order to hunt the occasional kangaroo has added to the rort.
    I just wish I could claim all the land that I wandered over as a child, destroy its money making potential and then go on the dole for life.

    Regards Philip A
    It's not true to say that Aboriginals have 'no traditional idea of land ownership.' They have a very strong idea of land ownership, but they express it differently to us because the tribes were nomadic and moved about, rather than building settlements and farms.
    Their traditional lifestyle is also quite different to ours. There are successful stations, but remember that their traditional objective is not to farm like us, but to subsist on the land, so what looks like neglect to us is not neglect to them. There are two quite different concepts of how to manage land, so we can't judge one by the other. They probably think we neglect our land by not following their traditional practices.
    Anyway, we can't undo the past invasion, dispossession and decimation, but we sure could get a lot smarter about how to achieve harmony for the future. For example, every time we hear outrage over the serious problems in Aboriginal communities such as drunkenness, violence, abuse etc., remember that they are symptoms of the breakdown of their traditional society caused by our invasion.
    The answer isn't to force them to become more like us, but rather to assist them to re-establish positive elements of their traditional lifestyle. It has been done in other places, including New Zealand, so it is possible, but only if we in the dominant society get smarter in our appreciation of what's really involved.
    For example, sending in the army or police is not the answer, it's just a repeat of the mistakes of the past. Helping communities to become self-governing and self-regulating would be a step in the right direction. It's certainly very difficult because the situation is such a mess, but it could only help.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoMick View Post
    It's not true to say that Aboriginals have 'no traditional idea of land ownership.' They have a very strong idea of land ownership, but they express it differently to us because the tribes were nomadic and moved about, rather than building settlements and farms.
    Their traditional lifestyle is also quite different to ours. There are successful stations, but remember that their traditional objective is not to farm like us, but to subsist on the land, so what looks like neglect to us is not neglect to them. There are two quite different concepts of how to manage land, so we can't judge one by the other. They probably think we neglect our land by not following their traditional practices.
    Anyway, we can't undo the past invasion, dispossession and decimation, but we sure could get a lot smarter about how to achieve harmony for the future. For example, every time we hear outrage over the serious problems in Aboriginal communities such as drunkenness, violence, abuse etc., remember that they are symptoms of the breakdown of their traditional society caused by our invasion.
    The answer isn't to force them to become more like us, but rather to assist them to re-establish positive elements of their traditional lifestyle. It has been done in other places, including New Zealand, so it is possible, but only if we in the dominant society get smarter in our appreciation of what's really involved.
    For example, sending in the army or police is not the answer, it's just a repeat of the mistakes of the past. Helping communities to become self-governing and self-regulating would be a step in the right direction. It's certainly very difficult because the situation is such a mess, but it could only help.
    Written like a True Ivory tower occupant.
    What "invasion" ?
    We "Settled" here much like the Aboriginals did thousands of years ago.
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  3. #43
    DiscoMick Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by trout1105 View Post
    Written like a True Ivory tower occupant.
    What "invasion" ?
    We "Settled" here much like the Aboriginals did thousands of years ago.
    Not ivory tower at all mate - been there, seen enough.
    Settlement involved invasion, dispossession and decimation - that's just historical fact, which has to be accepted if we are to make a better future together. Denial is not a policy for harmony.

  4. #44
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    Maybe some of the armchair experts should do some reading before spruiking further.

    Dark Emu - Culture and History | Magabala Books
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by trout1105 View Post
    Written like a True Ivory tower occupant.
    What "invasion" ?
    We "Settled" here much like the Aboriginals did thousands of years ago.
    Would you say that India, Canada, South Africa etc were 'settled' in the same way?

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoMick View Post
    It has been done in other places, including New Zealand,
    I think the poor white trash over there may beg to differ with you....

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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by V8Ian View Post
    Maybe some of the armchair experts should do some reading before spruiking further.

    Dark Emu - Culture and History | Magabala Books
    Have you read that one Ian?
    Did his arguments hold up?
    Looks like it would be an interesting read.

  8. #48
    DiscoMick Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by V8Ian View Post
    Maybe some of the armchair experts should do some reading before spruiking further.

    Dark Emu - Culture and History | Magabala Books
    Looks interesting, thanks for the link.
    From the summary it appears he's not justifying dispossession. Rather, he's disputing the idea that dispossession was justified because Aboriginal society was too primitive to be worth preserving. He seems to be saying Aboriginal society was more sophisticated than whites realised, if I understand it correctly. I'd agree with that.

  9. #49
    DiscoMick Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by incisor View Post
    I think the poor white trash over there may beg to differ with you....

    I'm sure the 'poor white trash' everywhere would beg to differ, but that doesn't make them right.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoMick View Post
    I'm sure the 'poor white trash' everywhere would beg to differ, but that doesn't make them right.
    in your opinion

    pretty sure they are as entitled to think they are right as you do
    2007 Discovery 3 SE7 TDV6 2.7
    2012 SZ Territory TX 2.7 TDCi

    "Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." -- a warning from Adolf Hitler
    "If you don't have a sense of humour, you probably don't have any sense at all!" -- a wise observation by someone else
    'If everyone colludes in believing that war is the norm, nobody will recognize the imperative of peace." -- Anne Deveson
    “What you leave behind is not what is engraved in stone monuments, but what is woven into the lives of others.” - Pericles
    "We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” – Ayn Rand
    "The happiness of your life depends upon the quality of your thoughts." Marcus Aurelius

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