Work for Dole?

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10th February 2019, 05:29 PM
Zeros

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

The Newstart allowance is just $39 a day, which is too low to actually live on, and hasn't been increased in 20 years in real terms.
Job agencies just churn them through so they can bill the government, but rarely actually find jobs for them. With six people unemployed for every actual job vacancy last time I checked, it's no wonder the current privatised jobs system fails to actually find jobs for most people. All it does is pay the agencies to bill the government while running the job seekers through an endless totally pointless application merry go round process applying for jobs that don't exist, like mice running on a wheel they can't get off.
About 40% of workers are now casual with no permanency, which means they often can't get bank loans and other things most of us take for granted.
Aged care pay is amongst the lowest of any industry, and almost totally casual, so it's no wonder people don't want those jobs.
The answer is to turn the casuals into permanent part-time or full-time workers, so they stop being the working poor and get a reasonable amount of money in their pockets, which they will then spend and boost the economy, which is stagnant because even the Reserve Bank board says wages are too low.

But that wouldn't be winner takes all growth capitalism Mick! [bigwhistle] ...all those bludgers should just get a job! :soapbox::rulez::bat:
10th February 2019, 05:31 PM
Eevo

the point of UBI is not to help them get a job. the idea is, in our modern society, less jobs are actually needed. UBI give people the option to work but doesn't force them to work to live.
this also help with so many of todays jobs being casual or part time.
10th February 2019, 08:56 PM
DiscoMick

So why make them apply online for 6 jobs a week, with everyone knowing its just a sham process and ignored by most employers?
The only way to actually get a job is to personally front lots of businesses and hope to score a chance to prove what you can do.
10th February 2019, 09:33 PM
Ranga

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eevo

the idea is, in our modern society, less jobs are actually needed

I grew up thinking just that - the more automation (think automated checkouts, robotic manufacturing, mass-production, online sales etc) meant humans would be able to work less. But to work less in our society seems to equate to the perception that those without work are dole bludgers and their poverty is brought on by themselves. This issue seems to be exacerbated by the simple mathematics of supply and demand that erode the opportunities in small or regional towns. Some might argue all this automation enables to the rich to get richer, and the poor to get the picture...

Back to the original post - were the jobs permanent full time? I think job creation statistics are one of the biggest scams going these days, when so many of the new jobs are casual/part-time and provide hardly more income to be above the poverty line. Also, were those trained really interested in that field of work, or were they made to do the training. I sure hope so - I wouldn't want half-hearted, disinterested people working in aged care. Like many things in life, there's probably more than meets the eye. Question everything.

Regarding UBI or even our existing welfare system, I wonder how many people would be less angry or concerned about welfare recipients - and the money they received - if that same amount of money was given to every adult. The idea being, that if in our modern, automated society humans have been smart enough to create systems to lessen the workload so everyone could have a default, government provided income that provided a modest but comfortable living for doing little work. Those who wanted more than that, could decide to go and work more for it.
10th February 2019, 10:00 PM
Zeros

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ranga

I grew up thinking just that - the more automation (think automated checkouts, robotic manufacturing, mass-production, online sales etc) meant humans would be able to work less. But to work less in our society seems to equate to the perception that those without work are dole bludgers and their poverty is brought on by themselves. This issue seems to be exacerbated by the simple mathematics of supply and demand that erode the opportunities in small or regional towns. Some might argue all this automation enables to the rich to get richer, and the poor to get the picture...

Back to the original post - were the jobs permanent full time? I think job creation statistics are one of the biggest scams going these days, when so many of the new jobs are casual/part-time and provide hardly more income to be above the poverty line. Also, were those trained really interested in that field of work, or were they made to do the training. I sure hope so - I wouldn't want half-hearted, disinterested people working in aged care. Like many things in life, there's probably more than meets the eye. Question everything.

Regarding UBI or even our existing welfare system, I wonder how many people would be less angry or concerned about welfare recipients - and the money they received - if that same amount of money was given to every adult. The idea being, that if in our modern, automated society humans have been smart enough to create systems to lessen the workload so everyone could have a default, government provided income that provided a modest but comfortable living for doing little work. Those who wanted more than that, could decide to go and work more for it.

Excellent post. A proper living wage would actually save billions, in social security, health of all kinds, policing, etc. To put it simply, it would also increase business incomes, create employment and assist people to create new work opportunities for themselves. it could actually reduce taxes and increase tax income.
10th February 2019, 10:34 PM
bblaze

the other problem with age care facilities is they rely heavily on volunteers, most even have them rostered like workers. In the local one I reckon unskilled (not uncaring) volunteers replace 10 full time jobs
cheers
blaze
11th February 2019, 03:27 AM
RobMichelle

Aged care was more just the example I used for here, as there really is not much else here.
3 families from conga not long moved here under some sort of relocation scheme, now 2 of of the family members have jobs, 1 at the hospital 1 at the ages care facility, not bad for under a month, considering others have been here for years and still no job, but free qualifications.
Automated tellers suck, we only go to people, cos people mean jobs.
I may not understand the workings of a lot but to me, money should come through working !
11th February 2019, 03:32 AM
RobMichelle

Last statement does not include fairdinkum sickness, pensions or accidents, and 4bee including me in his will [emoji3]
11th February 2019, 04:34 AM
trout1105

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeros

Excellent post. A proper living wage would actually save billions, in social security, health of all kinds, policing, etc. To put it simply, it would also increase business incomes, create employment and assist people to create new work opportunities for themselves. it could actually reduce taxes and increase tax income.

Seriously??
No matter how much the dole is those complaining now would still want more because they would see what the bloke down the road (he's working) is getting and they would want the same.
Why do people think that the World owes them a living without them working to support themselves?
It doesn't work that way, This free working wage "utopia" you blokes are carrying on about wont work because if everyone could live comfortably without having to lift a finger to provide for themselves Who would be doing the hard yakka to make sure that everyone else could live a life of leisure??
Good luck getting someone to unblock your dunny or build you that extension you want when you need it because all the plumbers and chippies will be sitting on their arses with their free living wage like every one else[bigwhistle]
11th February 2019, 05:36 AM
Ranga

Quote:

Originally Posted by trout1105

Seriously??
No matter how much the dole is those complaining now would still want more because they would see what the bloke down the road (he's working) is getting and they would want the same.

Then they would have to get off their arse and work for it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trout1105

Why do people think that the World owes them a living without them working to support themselves?
It doesn't work that way, This free working wage "utopia" you blokes are carrying on about wont work because if everyone could live comfortably without having to lift a finger to provide for themselves Who would be doing the hard yakka to make sure that everyone else could live a life of leisure??

Those who want more than just basic food, clothing and shelter?

Quote:

Originally Posted by trout1105

Good luck getting someone to unblock your dunny or build you that extension you want when you need it because all the plumbers and chippies will be sitting on their arses with their free living wage like every one else[bigwhistle]

If unblocking your dunny buys them a new TV or jetski, someone would do it.

As previously mentioned, people make the assumption that welfare life is very comfortable and easy, which usually isn't the case unless someone in the household is supporting it. From what I've seen, especially in welfare supported student living, life isn't very luxurious, and those who want more than they need typically strive for it.

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