Restructure & Redundancy

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Originally Posted by Bigbjorn

There is redundant and not redundant. Google Weeks vs ATO.

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Hello Big Bjorn,

Now that is interesting particularly the following part...
The court held that, for a payment to be a “genuine redundancy payment” under s 83-175(1), the employee’s position has to be made redundant. So much is clear from the language of s 83-175: “because the employee’s position is genuinely redundant”

As the new organisational structure does not feature a number of previous roles recorded in the former organisational structure, it would be considered a genuine redundancy.

It may make a number of people I know a little bit happier. Well as much as they can be in the current situation

Kind regards
Lionel

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Originally Posted by PhilipA

I have been made redundant 3 times in my life .

I don't see much difference with Newstart as a person being made redundant will usually receive a payout according to their length of service usually 2 weeks per year.( if you worked for Telstra you got 4 weeks per year. What a rort)

Accrued holiday leave is treated differently with less tax AFAIR. 30%?

The second last time I was made redundant from Austrade as I didn't apply for positions.
If you were there for 10 years or whatever the qualifying period you can also cash out long service leave at a lower tax rate.
I was also offered 6 weeks "stress leave" which I didn't accept as I thought it would not look good on my record, but in retrospect I would now take all the leave and "retraining" that is offered.

One thing I would consider if you are in a management position and over 40-45 , I found it very difficult to get another job. "Overqualified". It means too old and expensive. I have found that there is a lot of Ageism in the workplace despite what the propaganda says. No boss likes a subordinate with more experience than them.

However I really enjoyed being a TAFE teacher and consultant for 18 months before getting another executive position so all is not lost.
However if you are in a management position and would like one of the jobs on offer, I would go for it, as there is a great benefit in continuity of employment over a long period, that you will benefit from when you retire.

Regards Philip A

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Hello Philip,

Well there is irony for you... the first time I took a VER was when I was a TAFE Teacher! The state government decided that rural horticulture teachers and all the equipment we needed, like tractors were too expensive. It did not matter that our section was bringing in the most money in the whole institute at the time.

Also, you wrote... and would like one of the jobs on offer... well there is the crux of the matter. Each role in genuinely redundant positions have a new shadow role. The positions have changed from a management one to an administration role - a massive drop in pay and conditions.

Kind regards
Lionel

I know someone whose organisation went through a similar process a couple of years ago, and the total number of staff dropped by about a third. It was not a happy time. The person I know survived. I advise you to apply for everything possible and take every dollar of entitlements available.

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Originally Posted by Lionelgee

Hello Big Bjorn,

Now that is interesting particularly the following part...
The court held that, for a payment to be a “genuine redundancy payment” under s 83-175(1), the employee’s position has to be made redundant. So much is clear from the language of s 83-175: “because the employee’s position is genuinely redundant”

As the new organisational structure does not feature a number of previous roles recorded in the former organisational structure, it would be considered a genuine redundancy.

It may make a number of people I know a little bit happier. Well as much as they can be in the current situation

Kind regards
Lionel

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Here is a link.

A taxing question: are you really redundant or merely excess?

I know Cheryl Weeks. She was harshly treated by the ATO. She is a lovely lady, a qualified solicitor which was her job at the ATO Executive Level 2. Someone wanted her out of the ATO. She defended herself in the AAT, Federal Court, High Court, and ended up with the ATO's costs awarded against her.

What always leaves a bad taste is when there are takeovers, reorganisations, new owners, new management, redundancies etc. and staff are told there are only x jobs in the new regime and x + ? workers. You will all have to apply for whatever jobs are available. Yes, including the job you are currently in.

Yes, it's very nasty.

Have been through this myself in the past - it's a ****ty situation, but here's a few things to consider and what I did when faced with this.

- I reapplied for my job, basically to give me time to think about things.
- I was lucky and got my job back - 2 others in my area didn't and I was asked to take on extra work (surprise surprise)
- I then used most of my time looking for a new job.
- Told said company to jam it as soon as I had found one and walked out - and I normally don't burn my bridges when moving around, but this was the exception. Funny thing was they asked both of the guys they'd just made redundant if they wanted to come back - both said no and they had to restructure that area again to make things work and by all accounts it was a cluster **** that cost them a lot on lost productivity for several months - suck **** I say.

One thing to consider here - if the company want you to jump through these hoops, how much do they value their staff? Answer - zero. Do you want to work for a company that doesn't give any value to their staff or their well being? I certainly wouldn't.

If faced with the same situation now, I would do pretty much the same thing, but as my family has grown up and moved out I'd take the opportunity for a tree change and move back to the Country rather than battle on in the City.

Hope it works out for you.

Going through something similar myself.....

Company has split into three different business units and have allocated everybody a business unit. Two business unit were put out for expression of interest while the other under review. A lot of worried people.

The business unit I’m in was sold pretty quick....changes hands 1st June. Given I’m on he corporate side/overhead I’m not sure how it’ll look with the new owner.....

Either way companies have the right to manage the business...and they owe me nothing, they have paid me in advance for the work I do. At the end of the day we are there to make the owner money.

I’ll either continue on in my role, maybe a role change or worst case be made redundant. If made redundant that’s life, I’ll move on.

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Originally Posted by weeds

Going through something similar myself.....

Company has split into three different business units and have allocated everybody a business unit. Two business unit were put out for expression of interest while the other under review. A lot of worried people.

The business unit I’m in was sold pretty quick....changes hands 1st June. Given I’m on he corporate side/overhead I’m not sure how it’ll look with the new owner.....

Either way companies have the right to manage the business...and they owe me nothing, they have paid me in advance for the work I do. At the end of the day we are there to make the owner money.

I’ll either continue on in my role, maybe a role change or worst case be made redundant. If made redundant that’s life, I’ll move on.

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Agreed that we are there to make the owner money, I have no dramas with that - the more I can make them the happier they'll be but when a company stop caring full stop for the people that are making them their money, things can and do turn around - a happy workforce is a productive workforce. I've worked for US companies in the past - they are the worst at it and also seem to have little understanding of why they turn over so many staff. The company I currently work for is the opposite and are productive and profitable - 100% Aussie owned and run. Staff turnover is low and they actively look at ways to improve staff amenity and satisfaction - and it shows with the workforce when you speak to everyone from the lowest **** kicker to Senior Management. There's no need to kick the crap out of your employees and make them feel worthless - it is a recipe for lower profits.

A daughter in law went through this with a unit on Queensland health. They retrenched the manager, trainer and a third of the staff. She survived. Then the work backed up to enormous delays for life-threatening services and some people resigned in disgust. Fortunately the government changed and a more realistic attitude was taken.

Hello All,

Back in February, while I was standing on top of a mountain in Nepal that had a view of the neighbouring Himalayas, I was struck totally awe inspired. While being gob-smacked by the mountain range's beauty and attempting to come to terms with their sheer size and splendour, I had some questions pop into my head. One of these involved my current job. "Are you happy in your work?" After a period of close review - you can guess the answer I made.

Upon my return home I started to plan for a bit of a leisurely squiz around at my options. Two weeks after my return to work a meeting was called and a new organisational structure was displayed. Four former roles were no longer displayed. One of them was ...

Be very careful about making plans when standing on top of a mountain in Nepal while viewing the Himalayas ... things seem to work real damn fast and in unanticipated ways. I suppose once a thought gets out there...

Kind regards
Lionel