Thread: Trivia and other useless but interesting items

See Hillman Car Club of South Australia – Commer TS3 Two Stroke Diesel Engine

especially the last image.

Click on this:
go_ts3.gif

Originally Posted by JDNSW

The problem, Brian, is that you are looking at the world of the 1950s through eyes that have experienced another sixty years since then. Hindsight is wonderful!

A few points about that world that existed then, for those that weren't there.

1. Australia sourced almost all trucks (and nearly everything else imported) from the UK. There are two basic reasons for this - firstly, Empire Preference tariffs, and secondly, dollars. In the 1950s the developed world was divided into two currency blocks - sterling and dollar, with countries having their currency tied to one or the other. There was no free interchange between these areas. For someone in Australia to buy something from the dollar area meant you had to effectively buy dollars from the federal government, because nobody else could exchange Australian pounds to US dollars. And the government had very limited supplies, as Australia sold very little to the USA. What dollars were available went to buy things such as aircraft (DC-6, Constellation, Electra, but military aircraft were British (Vampire, Lincoln, Canberra) or built here (Sabre), and also Viscounts were used domestically more than Electras) and essentials obtainable only from the dollar area.

2. British truck designs were constrained by two factors. Britain has short distances and narrow roads - not much demand for big trucks, so they were few and far between. And Britain had, until the early fifties, a speed limit for commercial vehicles of 30mph (50kph), so there was little demand for large engines. This was reflected in their designs, even those intended for export.

3. In Australia, diesel engines in trucks were quite rare except in the very largest trucks - and even most of these were petrol. What Commer brought to the field was the first affordable diesel truck. So they were overloaded. But so were the ones they replaced, typically a petrol engined WW2 ex-army Ford or Chevrolet. With even less power, and a bigger appetite for fuel.

John, my family's business, S.Wall & Co had eight Commers over about 12 years. Seven Knockers and one with a 6-354 Perkins. The Perkins version was the better truck. They were definitely underpowered from the first model, 90 hp. and the later ones made 105 hp. We had all of them as eight ton body trucks and one was shortened and hooked up to a 32' single axle trailer and later to a 36' bogie trailer. It struggled with either trailer. The bogie trailer typically took almost 24 hours driving time Brisbane to Sydney via the New England Highway much of the time in low range and the bottom half of the gearbox. We had two deck two axle sheep trailers to pull behind the body trucks. The aerodynamics of sheep crates made these trips slow and steady particularly ito a head wind. The engine required a lot of maintenance as did most then. Filtration and oils were nothing like today's standards. They ran with a degree of supercharge and when the blower got worn there was a loss of power and lots of fuel smoke. There were plenty of US sourced trucks sold here in the 50's, IHC, Mack, Federal, White, Diamond T, Reo come to mind. Some had diesel engines. The US linehaul business were divided on the relative merits and economics of petrol vs diesel right up until the first Arab oil shock. Trucks with big ( and I mean BIG) gasoline engines were considered by many operators as cheaper to buy, cheaper to maintain and overhaul, and with fuel at 20c or less per gallon who cares how much they used.

IHC were Australian built using a lot of Canadian components, certainly the others were starting to appear by the end of the fifties - although when I was living in Roma in 1962 Western Transport was using Macks, and these were considered out of the ordinary. By then the availability of dollars was improving, and communications were getting better.

The Perkins certainly seems to have been a better engine, but I wonder to what extent this was simply because it was more powerful.

As far as Petrol/diesel went - the company I was working for in the sixties, mostly in Qld, ran a lot of trucks in exploration, mostly Inter 160, 180, 190, a couple of Diamond T, a few Ford F-600, 800, all petrol. By 1969 they had fitted at least one of the R190s with a Detroit diesel, I can't remember which model. I think a lot of the steering clear of diesel was a matter of unfamiliarity. "If it stops working and its petrol, I'll know why - if its a diesel I won't have a clue". But by then fuel was getting expensive enough for the accountants to start asking questions.

Originally Posted by JDNSW

…………... But by then fuel was getting expensive enough for the accountants to start asking questions.

Many years ago we were at a 4WD park and my mate's Disco 1 spat a bolt out the rear diff, but he managed to drive it to the front gate and onto the tar road in 2WD to get it on the tow truck, which was a F250/ C30 (?) anyway some American truck that had a big petrol engine. My mate said to the towie surely he'd want a diesel, to which he replied no because it was cheaper to run on LPG.

Originally Posted by JDNSW

IHC were Australian built using a lot of Canadian components, certainly the others were starting to appear by the end of the fifties - although when I was living in Roma in 1962 Western Transport was using Macks, and these were considered out of the ordinary. By then the availability of dollars was improving, and communications were getting better.

The Perkins certainly seems to have been a better engine, but I wonder to what extent this was simply because it was more powerful.

As far as Petrol/diesel went - the company I was working for in the sixties, mostly in Qld, ran a lot of trucks in exploration, mostly Inter 160, 180, 190, a couple of Diamond T, a few Ford F-600, 800, all petrol. By 1969 they had fitted at least one of the R190s with a Detroit diesel, I can't remember which model. I think a lot of the steering clear of diesel was a matter of unfamiliarity. "If it stops working and its petrol, I'll know why - if its a diesel I won't have a clue". But by then fuel was getting expensive enough for the accountants to start asking questions.

Bedford and IHC had almost 60% of the truck market then. Western Transport used Macks because the owner of Western, Cyril Anderson, owned Mack Trucks Australia and assembled them in Brisbane. He was also Westco Motors, the Jaguar distributor. His wife, Geordie, imported and raced a Jaguar XK120 coupe followed by a D Type. Cyril later founded Leader Trucks. B model Macks were in use here in the late 50's. They were the first trucks that had decent and reliable brakes. By 1960-61 Many existing trucks were being repowered with diesels. Not uncommon to find an IHC R190 with a Detroit 4-71 or 6-71 under the bonnet. Leyland 400's were also used. Camerons imported the first modern Kenworths, S models, into Oz about 1963. Laurie O'Neill quickly followed this up with some Peterbilt.

Brian, You are a mine of information. Thanks!

When I started my apprenticeship we had 2 r190, 1 was a crane truck with a petrol engine and the other towed a log jinker with a 5 cyc ud. When 3 year app I changed employment (other guy sold out), then worked on pacific 15 toners, b61 in varies forms but I used to like to drive the leyland hippos. They were fun times, finishing my trade and fill in driver/operator for whatever needed a steerer for the day
cheers
blaze

Originally Posted by bblaze

When I started my apprenticeship we had 2 r190, 1 was a crane truck with a petrol engine and the other towed a log jinker with a 5 cyc ud. When 3 year app I changed employment (other guy sold out), then worked on pacific 15 toners, b61 in varies forms but I used to like to drive the leyland hippos. They were fun times, finishing my trade and fill in driver/operator for whatever needed a steerer for the day
cheers
blaze

You are unique. The only person on this planet who liked to drive Leyland Hippos.