Thread: Victoria, Net "importer" of Electricity?

It doesn't really matter anymore where power is sourced.

We have a national grid.

No one state needs to provide for themselves anymore , although local govt might lead you to believe this.

All power generated across Australia is fed into the grid network in some way or another and squabbles ensue between providers buying and selling on price.

Some of the small single turbine co-gen units dotted around the country dont run for weeks until demand and electricity price calls for it, even though they are staffed
and standing by.

So in reality you don't know whether you are using coal, wind, sun or hydro power or where it comes from.

You CAN see who is producing power to the grid and in what amounts.....some here could furnish the source of that info but I find it a little boring.

Gone are the days where local councils produced power for their ratepayers at cost, not at a profit to the provider , although quite a few small municipalities are looking to do just that again. Not before time, take the profits away from the greedy 'providers'.

[QUOTE=ramblingboy42;2927853

Gone are the days where local councils produced power for their ratepayers at cost, not at a profit to the provider , although quite a few small municipalities are looking to do just that again. Not before time, take the profits away from the greedy 'providers'.[/QUOTE]

I am old enough to remember when outback villages and small towns had a generating plant commonly owned by the Shire Council. The "grid" didn't exist and most of these plants only supplied power to the small town and those close by. Farms and pastoral stations were on their own if they were much more than a mile or three out of town. I remember my father telling me about one Western Queensland small town that had a private syndicate that built a generator. Apparently to have power connected one had to join the syndicate by being accepted as a member like joining a gentleman's club and then buying shares in the syndicate. I wonder if one's old school tie and lodge had any bearing on acceptance.

Grafton used to have a hydro power station.

Electricity is an East Coast grid. WA is separate. Generators bid to sell power to ANEMO, the market operator.
Mostly, solar and wind are the cheapest bids. Hydro is also cheap. Coal and gas fill the gaps.
This trend is increasing as worn out coal stations shut down. No-one will finance or insure new coal generation stations, so they won't be built.
Renewables are the future, combined with battery banks with gas as a backup. Victoria lost Hazelwood and it won't be replaced with another coal station.
The UK is on track to hit 100% net zero emissions by 2050. We will be lucky to hit 30% unless government policies change.
Businesses and other large consumers are signing contracts which fund the construction of new solar-wind-battery power generation farms, which then bid to supply into the grid.
Domestic consumers are covering their roofs with solar to run their houses during the day and reduce their need to draw on the grid at night. For example, our son has just installed 6.5Kw of panels which are generating twice as much power as their house needs in a 24 hour period. Works well.
Electricity generation used to be centralised, but now technology means it can be decentralised, which is a big improvement. Adding batteries will reinforce the trend towards being self-sufficient. This is great progress.

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

Grafton used to have a hydro power station.

Electricity is an East Coast grid. WA is separate. Generators bid to sell power to ANEMO, the market operator.
Mostly, solar and wind are the cheapest bids. Hydro is also cheap. Coal and gas fill the gaps.
This trend is increasing as worn out coal stations shut down. No-one will finance or insure new coal generation stations, so they won't be built.
Renewables are the future, combined with battery banks with gas as a backup. Victoria lost Hazelwood and it won't be replaced with another coal station.
The UK is on track to hit 100% net zero emissions by 2050. We will be lucky to hit 30% unless government policies change.
Businesses and other large consumers are signing contracts which fund the construction of new solar-wind-battery power generation farms, which then bid to supply into the grid.
Domestic consumers are covering their roofs with solar to run their houses during the day and reduce their need to draw on the grid at night. For example, our son has just installed 6.5Kw of panels which are generating twice as much power as their house needs in a 24 hour period. Works well.
Electricity generation used to be centralised, but now technology means it can be decentralised, which is a big improvement. Adding batteries will reinforce the trend towards being self-sufficient. This is great progress.

Well and good, Mike but not relevant to the OP, unless I'm missing something?

Er Mick are you considering the UK use of imported wood chips from the USA as renewable?
I understand 40% of UK power is supplied by DRAX from imported wood chips.
what a lot of BS.

regards PhilipA

Originally Posted by Pickles2

I heard on the news this morning that Victoria was now unable to generate enough electricity on its own to supply its on requirements, now being a "net importer", its requirements being supplied by S,A., Tas, & N.S.W....this deficiency being responsible for several outages last year. It was also stated that the situation is not likely to improve.
There are several on this forum who have exhibited a very substantial knowledgeable interest in this subject, based on FACT, not myth & hearsay. I have no such knowledge, so I was wondering what factual info such a person might reveal on this subject relative to Victoria.
Pickles.

Victoria is a nett importer of avocados but no one worries about that.

In this privatised world, where all the dogs have more fleas than ever, the basic premise of each state doing it's generation is totally out the window.

AFAIK there was only one major outage event in Vic in the last 12 months and that was due to the old ' individual state' grid system being incapable of getting excess QLD generation capacity to Vic at the time. I was watching it live when the lights went out where I am.

Anyone who is interested can too.............

Live Supply & Demand Widget, sponsored by RenewEconomy |

I'm not really into the politics of all that happens, but the data presented on that page, that updates every 5 mins in line with the national market, is a real eye opener when you get to understand what is being presented.

HTH, DL

That's a very useful widget. Thanks.
It certainly shows Qld is way out in front in total renewables and Tasmania in hydro (as expected). Also still shows a lot of coal, but falling - SA has replaced coal with gas, halving emissions. SA has lots of gas and not much coal, of course. When Liddell shuts down in 2 years that will have a similar effect to when Hazelwood closed, I assume. Snowy Hydro 2 should boost NSW and Victoria, once the transmission networks are upgraded. Every building with solar reduces the need for more centralised generation plants.
As for the original post, the market operates in five interconnected zones, with WA standing alone. So no eastern state is self-sufficient. Qld is often powering the southern states to some extent. SA often fills the gap in Victoria. Interconnection makes the whole East Coast grid more stable.
It's not how the power is generated that matters, but if there is enough supply. It's all good.

Originally Posted by PhilipA

Er Mick are you considering the UK use of imported wood chips from the USA as renewable?
I understand 40% of UK power is supplied by DRAX from imported wood chips.
what a lot of BS.

regards PhilipA

Interesting point you raise.
Here are the sources of UK electricity. No mention of imported wood chips. Might be included in a larger total.

Electricity generation | Energy UK

I did find this story which supports that some American wood chips are being shipped to the UK and EU to burn in biomass plants. Interesting that even shipping it over and burning it still produces less emissions than burning UK coal in the UK. Be better to keep it in the USA and increase renewables, I think. Wind already supplies twice as much power as coal in the UK so it can certainly be done.

British power stations are burning wood from US forests – to meet renewables targets

Here is the announcement of the UK committing to net zero emissions by 2050.

Theresa May: UK to reach zero net emissions by 2050