An interesting read on electric vehicles and the experience in regional areas

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

When I wrote 10-15 years, I was used these figures to make the point that even if this happens, most cars will still be ICE at the end of this period. This does not mark the end of the ICE vehicle, even if manufacture of them ceased then - a reasonable average life is for the last ones produced is at least twenty years (my two cars in pretty much daily use are 50 and 36 years old), so even stopping production of ICE vehicles in 10-15 years does not mean tht our infrastructure has to cope with 100% EVs in 10-15 years - more like 30-35 years, with the changeover being very gradual, so there will be plenty of time to upgrade infrastructure, in the same way that Australia changed from a largely public transport nation in 1945 to a car oriented nation twenty or thirty years later.

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We do still have horses [thumbsupbig]. Its is Michelin with the 2024 Le Mans Target "the Group and Symbio became partners of the Mission H24 project which aims to apply hydrogen technology to endurance vehicles competing in the 2024 24 Hours of Le Mans."

"Fabio Ferrari will be in charge of developing the Michelin Group’s Hydrogen Mobility strategy and supporting its deployment."

Sounds Pedigree?

Symbio link in case any one is interested

Townsville is getting a renewable hydrogen plant. Ignore the politicians and the company gives some interesting info.

Townsville to get NQ’s first renewable hydrogen plant - Energy Source & Distribution

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

When I wrote 10-15 years, I was used these figures to make the point that even if this happens, most cars will still be ICE at the end of this period. This does not mark the end of the ICE vehicle, even if manufacture of them ceased then - a reasonable average life is for the last ones produced is at least twenty years (my two cars in pretty much daily use are 50 and 36 years old), so even stopping production of ICE vehicles in 10-15 years does not mean tht our infrastructure has to cope with 100% EVs in 10-15 years - more like 30-35 years, with the changeover being very gradual, so there will be plenty of time to upgrade infrastructure, in the same way that Australia changed from a largely public transport nation in 1945 to a car oriented nation twenty or thirty years later.

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All good. :)

Average age of a vehicle on Australia is around 10 years, so will be interesting to see if this blows out if/when ICE vehicles start to leave the market and people hang onto what is left.

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Originally Posted by Homestar

All good. :)

Average age of a vehicle on Australia is around 10 years, so will be interesting to see if this blows out if/when ICE vehicles start to leave the market and people hang onto what is left.

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So, seeing both my vehicles are more than 10 years old, does this make me 'Above Average' or 'Below Average'?................and 'Yes', I realise I'm leading with my chin, here![biggrin]

Not sure if it's above or below - depends on what metrics you use. :)

It's a win as far as I'm concerned though. [thumbsupbig]

Interesting thread. As far as my knowledge and opinion goes: Hydrogen might be less efficient than a battery but it is way more versatile. You can use it in a fuel cell, burn it like you do LPG in an ICE, use it in turbine applications etc. etc. This means you can run a ship on it, planes might be feasible I do not know, a gas or coal powered plant could be fairly easily converted, older ICE engines can simply keep on running reducing environmental waste by recycling verhicles early, well you name it! It can also be produced large scale in area's where it makes sense, let's say the Arabian peninsula where all the oil barons live these days. They have the persian gulf to tap into for water... (yes I know, needs desalination and what not but still) and have an abundance of sun to build proper solar plants (not by means of PV panels but large solar towers or whatever) The infrastructure of tankers, fuel stations, etc. already exists and altering them / augmenting them would be fairly inconsequential compared to the massive amounts of work needed to up the capacity of the power grid needed to go all battery vehicles, let alone the power generation needed. And no a few solar panels more is not the correct answer imho.

Also, batteries are by no means environmentally friendly (or humane for that matter, see cobalt mining child labour in the congo for instance) at this time and solar panels are certainly not either since they contain large amounts of dirty stuff.

I think none of the options are perfect but I see a bit more value in going hydrogen at least in parallel for the foreseeable future.

Cheers,
-P

Have seen hydrogen vehicle refuelling facility here in the U.K. they have solar and wind power with water. Make the hydrogen as required to fill the tanks. Vehicles come in and fill up as if it was a petrol station. Amazing how little infrastructure and supply line logistics are required.

Both Toyota and Honda have said that they see battery as a temporary measure until hydrogen can be miniaturised so the gas can be made in the vehicle as required rather than held in a tank for use

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Originally Posted by 3toes

hydrogen can be miniaturised so the gas can be made in the vehicle as required rather than held in a tank for use

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Sorry how does a car generate the power required to generate enough hydrogen to actually run it? Perpetual motion comes to mind [bigrolf]

You would need something like a small nuclear plant under the bonnet to generate the power required - then might as well just run on the steam generated.

The bottom line is that to make hydrogen it takes a huge amount of power - and that has been its limitation up to now - with renewable energy becoming cheap and plentiful, the generation of hydrogen becomes more economical and environmentally friendly.

Garry

I notice Japan is planning for the Tokyo Olympics, postponed until next year, to be powered by hydrogen. Not sure what that means, but it sounds interesting.

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

I notice Japan is planning for the Tokyo Olympics, postponed until next year, to be powered by hydrogen. Not sure what that means, but it sounds interesting.

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Well, I think a dirigible slalom event would be very interesting.