Thread: E10

Originally Posted by Tote

I use Coleman fuel, available from tentworld, but only in store, mostly because it comes in a steel can with a coleman designed pourer funnel. Although I note it isn't on their website anymore.

Regards,
Tote

yeah,

tried it once, have the can to prove it and it did burn just a gnats cock hotter than 91ron

but i nearly always have 91ron with me so i just use that save carrying more flammable stuff

Originally Posted by 101RRS

I think the OP is getting mixed up with the introduction of 10% ethanol across all petrol fuels in the UK.

Same.
Article took me by surprise whe I read it a couple of days ago, until I realised it was a UK story.

So for a bit of background the term 'petrol' is a bit like 'chocolate cake'. It covers a whole heap of stuff.

The base of petrol is naphtha or heavy naphtha which again covers a whole heap of chemical compounds but mainly straight hydrocarbons, with an average of 8-9 carbon atoms in each molecule and a RON of around 60, from memory most petrol is 80% plus naphtha. They then blend in other hydrocarbons and some herbs and spices, to get it up to a RON of 91.

Shellite, Fuellite in NZ (and probably Coleman fuel), is straight naphtha. I've been banned from using petrol when cooking, it's the herbs and spices apparently that are the problem. I've suggested that we probably breathe in a heap from all of the traffic passing by, but that fell on deaf ears.

Ethanol has a RON of around 120 and is an approved additive to increase the RON in higher performance fuels, so legally, fuel companies can use Ethanol to produce 95 and 98 without telling you about it. I doubt that they do but it's an option for them.

There are only a few hundred cars in Australia that need to run on 98, IMHO I think 98 is just a good marketing strategy for the big oil companies to rake in a lot of extra cash.

Cheers Glen

Originally Posted by Dorian

There are only a few hundred cars in Australia that need to run on 98, IMHO I think 98 is just a good marketing strategy for the big oil companies to rake in a lot of extra cash.

Anecdotally I find 98 seems to last longer before dropping gum/sludge so I tend to grab 98 for my plastic jerries. Admittedly this has been "tested" over 20 years or so and I'm positive the formulations of both 91 and 98 will have varied over that time, but I just find 98 seems to leave less grunge in the rarely used petrol powered equipment (garden, outboard, generator).

I'm probably wrong, but since I switched to 98 I haven't had to de-gum a carbie and with 91 that was a relatively regular occurrence.

In the car, there were a few years there where it was cheaper for me to put 98 in. The vehicle has a reasonable EFI with a good knock sensor and the mileage gain from 98 was enough to offset the additional cost. But that was back in the late 90's early 2000's when the cost differential wasn't as steep.

I've never seen E10 in WA, so it remains quite theoretical over here.

Some testing by a few race teams here has shown better performance from 95 over 98.

That’s in classes where pump fuel rules.

Very few vehicles benefit from 98.

The Nitro bikes etc are another story all together

Most of the E10 I see is rated 94 octane.

Octane is detonation threshold though - not calorific value.

So less efficient in machines not mapped/built to utilise the compressive increases.

I'm interested to learn more about E10 in .au since I do plan (if that bloody chinese flue will ever pass) to come tour your magnificent country and I would like to avoid E10 in my P38 as much as possible.

To share my experiences, which are admittedly from europe but I guess bio-ethanol is the same all over?

We used to have 5% ethanol blended in with our petrol in the standard fuel which is 95 octane. They started doing that a while back and whilst it did not create a noticeable problem in most vehicles I own, my mates mechanically injected benz slowly started to grow unhappy. We only have one other type of fuel available down here a 98 octane premium fuel. After he switched, the problems went away in so far an old mechanically injected engine of that age can be.

Fast forward a few years and the standard 95 octane fuel was switched by law to 10% bio-ethanol. That is when I switched to 98 premium for all my cars, which are all pre-2000. I own several honda legends so I can compare them quite well and one of them was imported from germany where e10 has been a thing for quite a long time already. I recently had a fuel pump failure (or so I thought, turned out to be the fuel relay) so I went into the shed and started ripping an old legend apart to get the fuel pump out. This car has never even seen E5 so it has always run 95 octane standard fuel. The fuel tank and pump are galvanised on the inside with that gold colored stuff and were still bright and shiny. My (newer) german import which has run e10 for a considerable part of it's life had everything inside the fuel tank dulled due to corrosive elements such as water.

Ethanol is indeed hygroscopic and even small organisms can grow inside your fuel, bound to the water.

I have had 3 month old E10 in my generator and it would not start. It simply would'nt. So I emptied it out, threw some aspen fuel in there (probably the same as your shellite stuff) and started the generator up and let it run for a while. Once I was satisfied I threw the E10 back in there and the engine simply stalled. Visually there was no gumming or dirt in the fuel but the colour had gone from a light yellow to a brown yellow. If you throw this fuel on a pile of firewood and throw a match in there (from a safe distance!) it burns like nobody's business but is simply won't run in an engine anymore. I am not sure why this is but 3 month old 98 premium, which I also tested, did NOT have a similar problem.

So, whenever I use a small petrol engine (like my generator) and I know I will be using it for a while, I have no problem running it on regular fuel but I do let it run out or pour it out in the end. I then fill it up with a splash of aspen and run it until it has passed through everything in the system before I store it again. In my cars I only run premium non ethanol fuel. Yes, it is more expensive down here as well but it does not matter that much since it runs more economical. (bio)ethanol has a lower energy density so if you do the math, an engine running E10 uses 3% more fuel. Since premium fuels here are 6% more expensive on average that leaves me with 3% more cost. I'll take that and pass on the bio-ethanol crap, thank you.

Looking forward to any information regarding fuels and ethanol contents in .au!

Cheers,
-P