Open up your wallets

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Originally Posted by trout1105

2020 Toyota Landcruiser VDJ200R LC200 GXL (4X4) Wagon - Plaza Auto Sales
2022 Land Rover Defender 110 P525 V8 Auto AWD MY23 (carsales.com.au)

Which one would you choose as a tow tug/touring 4x4? The Defender.
Which one is better suited and kitted up for the job? Without a doubt, the Defender.
Which one has a prooven track record for reliability and capabillity? Depends to whom you are talking and what their conformation bias is.
Which one can you get parts and service ANYWHERE in Australia?Again, depends who you asask and how knowledgeable they are. I've never had a problem sourcing Land Rover parts, generally within twenty-four hours.

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It's amazing how when you had your Land Rover, it was the best car, driven by the best driver, serviced and maintained by the best mechanics. Since you relinquished the car, you haven't stopped bagging it.
Q1. A mate has an LC 100 with remarkably similar mods, he'll be the first to admit that the mods have seriously, negatively impacted the off road abilities of the car with the front axle totally unable to carry its share of the GVM upgrade.
Q2. Suited and kitted out are not mutually beneficial. See the above remark re suitability. Without a doubt the Toyota is better kitted out thanks to the aftermarket modifications, but it has converted it to an expensive posemobile, detracting gravely from its off road prowess.
Q3. Again, depends who you ask. Dependability, it's easier to find a barely competent mechanic, familiar with old Tojos, than a switched on tradesman who can service and repair a vehicle upon which he has not been specifically trained. All vehicles can and do break down.
Capability, there has never been any doubt, out of the box, Land Rover's off road abilities are superior to any mainstream 4X4.
Q4. Neither has an advantage over the other, if the owner is "in the know" and has a modicum of common sense.

There has to be a good reason for the original owner to have had a fire sale on a vehicle costing the best part of quarter of a million bucks, that has accumulated less than 17,000km a year.
The rich, bogan mods are great from a posing, show off on the main street, point of view, but have wrecked the off road abilities of a previously capable vehicle.

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It's amazing how when you had your Land Rover, it was the best car, driven by the best driver, serviced and maintained by the best mechanics. Since you relinquished the car, you haven't stopped bagging it.

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I DID very much enjoy driving my D2a BUT after spending well over $20K on repairs and maintenance over the 6 odd years that I owned it I decided to cut my losses and part with it.
The D2a was by FAR the Most unreliable 4WD that I have ever owned regardless of its excelent capabillity and comfort.
It WAS maintained by excellent mechanics (Whyatts in Geraldton) who worked on in on countless occasions due to the frequency of the problems that I had with it.

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Originally Posted by trout1105

I DID very much enjoy driving my D2a BUT after spending well over $20K on repairs and maintenance over the 6 odd years that I owned it I decided to cut my losses and part with it.
The D2a was by FAR the Most unreliable 4WD that I have ever owned regardless of its excelent capabillity and comfort.
It WAS maintained by excellent mechanics (Whyatts in Geraldton) who worked on in on countless occasions due to the frequency of the problems that I had with it.

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Trout it's a 20 year old vehicle with a lot of tech. It's still more advanced in many areas (and therefore likely to have more issues particularly with age) than a 79 series. So sure, most unreliable 4wd you have owned but also the oldest most advanced you have owned. Context is everything matey. Worth keeping in mind in my view.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by ozscott

Trout it's a 20 year old vehicle with a lot of tech. It's still more advanced in many areas (and therefore likely to have more issues particularly with age) than a 79 series. So sure, most unreliable 4wd you have owned but also the oldest most advanced you have owned. Context is everything matey. Worth keeping in mind in my view.

Cheers

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My D2a was a good 4WD and it did what I asked of it but the running costs became overwhelming because as you say it was a 20 year old vehicle and it became a matter of When not IF it was going to let me down again.

When we sold the big Jayco van the missus wanted a smaller 4 cyl 4WD which left me with a choice of keeping the 2004 D2a or the 2007 79 Series because keeping both wasn't an option.
The 79 Series uses at least 5l per 100km of fuel Less than the D2a, The only thing that has had to be fixed on the 79 Series was the alternator over the same period that I spent thousands on the D2a and the 79 Series has a massive canopy on it that I can utilise much better than the rear of the D2a.
The 79 Series also has much more "Grunt" than the D2a had also a much higher payload as well.
Both vehicles are good 4WD's but in my opinion the 79 Series is better, stronger and Far more reliable for my needs thats why I chose the 79 Series over the D2a.

I am NOT "Bagging" the D2a, All I am saying is that in MY opinion the 79 Series is a better 4WD for my needs all things considered.

Good post Trout. Cheers

"Which one would you choose as a tow tug/touring 4x4? The Defender.
Which one is better suited and kitted up for the job? Without a doubt, the Defender."

Sure the Defender is probably kitted up pretty well for towing out of the box.

But when towing the big weights,it is easily overloaded,and has no GVM upgrade available,and there won't ever be one in Aus, due to the current rules.

As a few on here,and other places,have found out, even towing less than 3.5T,they are running right on the limits of the vehicles rear axle.

The 130 is probably worse,due to the lever affect of the longer body and same wheelbase as the 110.

Its all horses for courses,every vehicle is a compromise one way or the other.

Whatever suits one person will not necesssary suit another,if it did it would be a very boring world.[biggrin]

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Originally Posted by scarry

"But when towing the big weights,it is easily overloaded,and has no GVM upgrade available,and there won't ever be one in Aus, due to the current rules.

As a few on here,and other places,have found out, even towing less than 3.5T,they are running right on the limits of the vehicles rear axle.

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GVM upgrades shouldnt be allowed anyway... [thumbsupbig]

Certainly not a fan of them, having seen the "upgrade" fitted to the Toyotas etc...


If a vehicle cant do what is needed weight wise, then the vehicle isnt suitable.


And a modern van shouldnt ever need to be so heavy in the "standard" size ranges... thats part of the industry failing, people being ridiculous with thier desires (although who wants to tow something that heavy with something of such similar or less mass) and pushing out ridiculous van set ups.

[QUOTE=scarry;3161365]"Which one would you choose as a tow tug/touring 4x4? The Defender.
Which one is better suited and kitted up for the job? Without a doubt, the Defender."

Sure the Defender is probably kitted up pretty well for towing out of the box.

But when towing the big weights,it is easily overloaded,and has no GVM upgrade available,and there won't ever be one in Aus, due to the current rules.

As a few on here,and other places,have found out, even towing less than 3.5T,they are running right on the limits of the vehicles rear axle.

The 130 is probably worse,due to the lever affect of the longer body and same wheelbase as the 110..."

You are talking new Defender right?

Cheers

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Originally Posted by Tombie

GVM upgrades shouldnt be allowed anyway... [thumbsupbig]

Certainly not a fan of them, having seen the "upgrade" fitted to the Toyotas etc...


If a vehicle cant do what is needed weight wise, then the vehicle isnt suitable.


And a modern van shouldnt ever need to be so heavy in the "standard" size ranges... thats part of the industry failing, people being ridiculous with thier desires (although who wants to tow something that heavy with something of such similar or less mass) and pushing out ridiculous van set ups.

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Not being a fan won't stop people doing it,there are tens of thousands around with upgrades,not just travellers,but also those that need it for work.( I do see your point,though)[smilebigeye]

Very little issues,and the smaller increases,up to say, 500KG are peice of mind for those running close to the limit.If there were heaps of issues i am sure the authorities would be onto it,hopefully.Well,maybe.

A heap of engineering and testing goes into getting them approved.

I agree 100%,some have rediculous desires,but that is the way it is,they will just keep rolling along as long as its legal.

Yes, Ozscott,new Defender was the one we were talking about.

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Originally Posted by Tombie

GVM upgrades shouldnt be allowed anyway... [thumbsupbig]

Certainly not a fan of them, having seen the "upgrade" fitted to the Toyotas etc...

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I am pretty sure the original manufacturers would have been all over it, if it was a good idea. I find the word “upgrade” problematic as it implies improvement. Perhaps “GVM compromise” might be a better reflection but prollly isn’t half as marketable.

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Originally Posted by Tombie

If a vehicle cant do what is needed weight wise, then the vehicle isnt suitable.


And a modern van shouldnt ever need to be so heavy in the "standard" size ranges... thats part of the industry failing, people being ridiculous with thier desires (although who wants to tow something that heavy with something of such similar or less mass) and pushing out ridiculous van set ups.

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I try to apply the Buddist phylosophy of Sunyata: the less you have the freer you are :soapbox: