Thread: PTSD - the words behind the diagnosis

Thank you for this, Lionel. I also have close ties to war veterans, and a lived experience of my own. I’m going to take a little time to digest what you have written.

Hello Tins,

Thank you for taking the time to post a reply. There is no hurry and no deadline involved with considering what I wrote. Feel free to send me a PM. I am happy to chat. I did not pursue my studies for a bound copy of it to sit on a library shelf collecting dust. If someone can benefit from my research all the much the better. Take care of yourself, Tins.

Also, an apology to you Tins, and other readers who might have noticed changes being made to the original post. I have been carrying thoughts about linkages within PTSD in my head for years. Their exit from my brain though my fingers and onto the computer screen is not always done in an orderly state. Also, sometimes the exit of ideas do not exactly comply with the formality of punctuation. Upon revisiting the original post I sometimes see the error of my ways - apologies to Ron regarding my breaches in punctuation etiquette.

Kind regards
Lionel

PTSD comes from more than one cause, and having an ICU 'holiday' has recently (?) come to be seen as a culprit. - Not the reason for being there, eg car crash, injury, or even recovering from life-threatening illness, like Sepsis... Just the experience, for some.

I was a small part of a wide Retrospective study into ICU Induced PTSD, now an acknowledged problem in rehab. One of the few instances where having a 'Label' is beneficial in treating 'The Obvious.'


I would indeed wish it upon my worst enemy !

Or politicians.

Originally Posted by superquag

PTSD comes from more than one cause, and having an ICU 'holiday' has recently (?) come to be seen as a culprit. - Not the reason for being there, eg car crash, injury, or even recovering from life-threatening illness, like Sepsis... Just the experience, for some.

I was a small part of a wide Retrospective study into ICU Induced PTSD, now an acknowledged problem in rehab. One of the few instances where having a 'Label' is beneficial in treating 'The Obvious.'


I would indeed wish it upon my worst enemy !

Or politicians.

Hello Superquag,

You are 100 percent correct in stating that PTSD comes from more than one cause. I use a metaphor of a PTSD being like a train. Where PTSD is the label placed on the train to identify where it is going. People with different causes of PTSD may get on the train at different stations to other people. However, everyone is on the same train and they are all on a journey. They may choose to get off the train at different stations too.

While on the same train different sights, smells and sounds experienced inside or outside of the train can trigger things like flashbacks. The symptoms and what treatment works varies between each passenger. If there were 100 people on the train there would be 100 different versions of PTSD. However, everyone is a passenger on the same train. One unfortunate thing is that some passengers put up partitions on the train. You frequently hear comments such as, "only people who experienced X-causal variety of trauma that I did can understand what it is like". In doing so they exclude sources of assistance or information that may be of benefit to them. Meanwhile, the PTSD train takes everyone down the line regardless of whether they are inside a partition or not.

PTSD is under diagnosed in parents of children with disability. Frequently depression is linked to parents of children with a disability. However, when bouts of depression occur at transition points in the child's life - such as going to school, going from primary school to high school, siblings or friend's of the family achieving success at sports or have their first girl-boy-gender non-specific 'friend'. Their siblings/friend's children leaving school and getting their first job. Life milestones that their child with a disability may not be able to attain. During these times the parent of a child with disability may get depressed. What the other individuals milestones or transition points could actually be doing is re-triggering trauma that started with the child's birth or formal diagnosis. Where the symptom of the trauma is identified as depression during these milestone events and that depressive aspect is the one that gets treatment. This milestone/transition depression cycle will continue - while the underlying cause trauma, remains unresolved. There is a poem Welcome to Holland - By Emily Perl Kingsley accessed 26th August 2023 from, Welcome to Holland - An Inspirational Poem — STEPS Autism Treehouse that compliments what I have just been attempting to describe.

Kind regards
Lionel

Can I recommend Dean Yates' book Line in the Sand. Dean's a Tassie boy -- a former colleague who was brave in the field and is still brave in facing his demons as his life unravelled...

Line in the Sand - Pan Macmillan AU

Hello All,

This time last week I was catching up with a friend of mine that due to the tyranny of distance we rarely get to see each other. I made it a combined trip. Actually, the bonus of the trip was to catch-up with my friend. The principal reason for the trip was to convert a text and email based interaction networking opportunity into a get to know more about one another in-person meeting.

This all sounds great. Most of it was.

Step in the influence of Autism. My friend and I are both parents of children with Autism. My friend and I are both on the Autism spectrum. My friend and I were years in the Autism 'trenches' fighting different tiers of government, and different government departments on behalf of our children, just trying to get them a 'fair go'. Both of us are married to what is described within the Autistic community as 'Neurotypicals' - people without a diagnosis of Autism - Yes even though our respective spouses have shared the journey - Yes they have assisted us to pick up the pieces as we crash burn and fragment because we have exhausted ourselves during the fight for our children. However, they have not experienced what it is like to have a diagnosis and have it try to derail your life. I suppose it is the difference being in the trenches fighting and being a part-time observer of trench warfare. So when one veteran meets another veteran - you can read each other like a book and can observe the hidden wounds. Well at these rare times one tends to let one's guard down - simply because there is no need for defences. There is simply no need for words - just a nod and the exchange of a knowing look. "You and I have both 'been there'". This person is a veteran too and one of 'our mob' along with the scars to prove it. None of this, 'oh - I have empathy or an understanding of Autism' ... sorry to write this ... 'crap'. Well Enter again Autism

With my spending the evening having a good old yack with my friend. Then going back to my motel room. Then seeing my friend again that morning - I got a tad hyper. You know ... too happy. Hmmm perhaps a tiny bit 'manic' just before I meet the person behind the networking opportunity. As it turns out good old Autism stepped in ... A hyper Autie can be a force of nature. Instead of it being a networking opportunity it turned out to be an exercise in bridge burning. Autism strikes again - sigh. There is nothing like being able to build up ones reputation - sigh by 2. Bullet ... foot ... shoot ... hole... ouch... bugger... Autism. Oh, yes - a week after the event and I am still kicking myself over my performance. Sincere apologies have been written and texted - with no responses. hmmm count fingers ... Sigh by 3 and raise another 'bugger'. Is that smoke I can smell? One thing about it - at times Autism takes no prisoners.

Lesson Learnt... Undertake Networking Opportunity First .... THEN go and see friend ... tap... count.. tap ... count 'Sigh' by 4...

Kind regards
Lionel

Hello All,

I suppose I need to elaborate about our neurotypical partners. They sure as hell did not sign up for an easy ride. Just as we can share a bed for years and cohabit the same house for decades; there are times when we, 'the veteran' can feel very much alone. On an equal basis my long suffering wife can say - "Lionel you are not here. I am sharing an empty house with a ghost. You have gone away in your mind and left me here - alone". The trouble is that sometimes I cannot feel that I am leaving or have left the building - while I am still there - well in body only that is. Autism ... bugger. The best thing about my getting a diagnosis is the awareness that my wife gained that I am not doing some things consciously. Like my retreating somewhere when I am not even aware that I am either going to, or that I have been dwelling in 'another place'. Then one day you hear ... "Yes - you are back!". As I wrote before ... the trouble is that I did not know I had 'gone' away .. again ...

Sometimes - we all feel 'alone'

With or without Autism - bugger!

Time to play this song Accessed 21st September 2023 from ... Jim Croce -Time In A Bottle (Lyrics) - YouTube... This one is for you - my dear!

Kind regards
Lionel

Hello All,

For some years I have been searching for something that might lend itself towards attempting to explain the phenomenon regarding the 'absent while present' aspect. It comes down to parts of the following song by Boz Scaggs - I just go accessed 21st September 2023 from Boz Scaggs - I just go ( live version ) - YouTube as being my best current exemplar.

Please discount the bit about getting 'caught up with friends' mentioned in the lyrics - as an excuse for the aberrant behaviour. We can get 'caught up' when we are just by ourselves. Even though the end result for our spouses is still exactly the same as described within Boz's very insightful lyrics

The majority of the song's lyrics and sentiments are spot on. Especially about our intentions to be better and the things we do to make things up to our spouses. However, sometimes ... "I just go"...

The important thing to consider - is this just an Autism 'thing'? Or is it a PTSD 'thing'? This is part of my issue, I am 'lucky' to have both conditions since childhood. My diagnosis of Autism came very close to it being one of my 40th birthday presents. The PTSD diagnosis came a couple of years afterwards. From my research and my own lived experiences, it can be very difficult to distinguish between where the influence from one condition starts and where the other condition's influence ends. My PhD research found that despite my belief in Neuroplasticity, individuals with Autism can be 'hard-wired' for PTSD. Part of the symptomatology linked to the presence of PTSD in military veterans is their experiencing Hypervigilance. Where hypervigilance has been identified as originating within a specific area of the brain. Interestingly, the same area of the brain - the Amygdala - has been identified through Magnetic Resonance Imaging as being a major contributing factor in the physiological and anatomical symptoms of Autism. However, the reason behind the presence of hypervigilance differs between Autism and Military veterans. Grandin (1) describes that, 'people with autism have emotions, but they are simpler and more like the emotions of a vigilant prey species animal. Fear is the main emotion in a prey species animal because it motivates the animal to flee from predators'. Hence with things like the presence of hypervigilance having different aspects it increases the difficulty in distinguishing where PTSD and Autism each starts and finishes. "One thing leads to another I guess and I just go'" (see the song lyrics (accessed 21st September 2023 from, Boz Scaggs - I Just Go Lyrics | SongMeanings).

Let me take some time to explain the difference in hypervigilance between Autism and military veterans. In Autism, as Grandin suggests, individuals are born with hypervigilance or they soon develop it in their life due to other people detecting a 'difference' in the person - even before the individual receives an official diagnosis. The school playground can be a very cruel place. The perceived differences makes children with Autism the ideal target for predators such as bullies. Whereas, unless they have Autism - military veterans undergo basic and continued training to develop vigilance as one of their tools of the trade. Due to trauma the aspect of vigilance reaches the 'hyper' or excessive level and it subsequently fails to decompress. Another thing to consider is that prior to their military training, recruits in current times would be at least 18 years of age. So, unless they were undiagnosed Autistics, the recruits have had at least 18 years of lived experience that did not feature the formula where eternal vigilance equals survival. Hence my earlier citing of Grandin's suggestion that an individual with Autism equates to their being a member of a 'prey species'. Hence, my research consideration that individuals with Autism can be hard-wired to PTSD.


Oh well... I think I might be becoming a tad morbid and tired - Time for me to go off into the arms of Morpheus - to recover and rebalance, via sleep. Please be aware if the content of this post has caused you any issues or distress please do not hesitate to call Lifeline 13 11 14. Call available 24/7.

Me, I am okay. Believe it or not - I am an optimist - salted with a fair degree of realism though. I did a PhD in this stuff and I survived it. Here is the song I frequently 'ground' myself with before I toddle off to bed each night ... accessed 21st of September 2023 from, Lynyrd Skynyrd - Simple Man - YouTube


Goodnight All

Kind regards
Lionel

(1) Grandin. (1997) Thinking the Way Animals Do: Unique insights from a person with a singular understanding (accessed 21/09/23 from Thinking the Way Animals Do).