Manual lover wins the auto/manual fight...(rant posting)

**Blknight.aus** · 8th October 2006, 08:17 PM

Ok perhaps the title is a little exxagerated and Im writing this as a rant I do acknowlodge that autos have their place but I finally got the idiot instructor at work to acknowlegde that Autos are not the be all and end all of transmissions...

It was a simple dissagreement over a couple of key issues that for me make manuals better than autos

1. manuals will work without oil (till they seize)
2. you can push start any manual
3. there are more critical componants in an auto than a manual

The auto was from an m113a1 apc and the manual used was a 4 speed from a rover.

with an auto in a test bed and a manual on the floor the argument began.

the 3rd point was easily proved, I pulled the syncros, the layshaft, the gears for 1,2,3, and reverse put the box in 4th and got drive.

I pulled one little gear out of the middle of a planetry and got nothing. we then had a discussion on what would happen if the first gear clutch pack was removed, the first gear planetry carrier, the first gear planetries, the first gear annulus, second gear etc, etc, etc apparently almost any missing part would result in no drive.

fight 3 to me.

the second was simple push started a landrover 110 by myself.

let him turn over the output shaft of the gearbox in the auto testbed till it turned the inputshaft. At 1100rpm he started to get drive on the input given that that equates to 35+kph... yeah you can push start a tx100 sort of..

called that one a draw. but I think I won. Could you push a 110 at 35khp on the flat? remeber the m113a1 weighs in at 11 and a bit tons and is on tracks.

The first test was the most fun

With an auto on the test bed I came up with a simple scenario.

"Youve been driving cross country in the m113a1 and stopped, shut down and are doing an obs post, over the hill a big tank with bad intentions towards you is coming. the turret is turning in your direction and you have about 15 seconds to get moving to try an make the nearest cover. Unknown to you the main pipe to the TX cooler has split from its union." I then disconnected the oil cooler return line from the test bed and routed it back to the storage tank for the bed.

"I'll pretend Im the tank when I start counting you try to get the output shaft to drive, when i get to 15 im going to shoot you" It didnt drive. his next argument was that if it was already running it would keep going...

so everything was reconnected the tx was set up and running and the drain bung was removed... It ran for about 45 seconds, then although it still had main pressure it dropped into first gear then stopped altogether as main pressure dropped off.

For the manual side of it I just walked over to the sectionalised manual transmission, put it in gear and with holes all over the box to allow viewing of the gears turned the input shaft while he held the output. when the he couldnt hold the output shaft he conceeded that arguement.

Id call it a definate 2/3 victory to me yeah?

as I said tounge in cheek in another post elsewhere

"I dont know who won the hill today but I do know this, They werent driving an auto."

Some how I dont think Im going to get good marks for Attitude in this part of the course...

**rangieman** · 8th October 2006, 08:25 PM

mate your going to cop it fair in ya face with this one

me thinks you are a **** stirrer

**Slunnie** · 8th October 2006, 08:54 PM

While making a hasty 15sec getaway up and over a protection hill, the auto drives up and over without a problem. The manual stalls on a tricky section during the ascent, tips onto its side and gets blown into 1,000,000 pieces by the engauging tank.

The other manual stalled during the getaway and was also blown to smitherines.

The last manual while parked also suffered a clutch failure, much like the auto which blew a hose while parked, and both vehicles were also blown into the spare parts factory.

**Bigbjorn** · 8th October 2006, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by Slunnie

While making a hasty 15sec getaway up and over a protection hill, the auto drives up and over without a problem. The manual stalls on a tricky section during the ascent, tips onto its side and gets blown into 1,000,000 pieces by the engauging tank.

The other manual stalled during the getaway and was also blown to smitherines.

The last manual while parked also suffered a clutch failure, much like the auto which blew a hose while parked, and both vehicles were also blown into the spare parts factory.

Now I will get it in the neck with this. The ill-educated, barely literate, poorly trained, unwilling, disinterested, swaddie drivers conscripted into war service from the dole queue, will stuff anything mechanical. The autos. will generally live better and longer in this type of service. Ask any fleet manager. I will now head for the bomb shelter before the missiles arrive from the overpaid military pensioners.

**rangieman** · 8th October 2006, 09:07 PM

BOOM!

**Blknight.aus** · 8th October 2006, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by Slunnie

While making a hasty 15sec getaway up and over a protection hill, the auto drives up and over without a problem. The manual stalls on a tricky section during the ascent, tips onto its side and gets blown into 1,000,000 pieces by the engauging tank.

The other manual stalled during the getaway and was also blown to smitherines.

The last manual while parked also suffered a clutch failure, much like the auto which blew a hose while parked, and both vehicles were also blown into the spare parts factory.

ya see slunnie this is why we dont let nancy boy auto discovery drivers play with real hardware, you always want to prove that your comfort wannabe 4x4;s are just as good as real landrovers. Fair enough your torque converter lets you climb better but I would have used my manual to drive AROUND the hill instead of over it thus not presenting such a large target to the oncoming tank nor overloading the drivetrain...

but then again if the tank was from 1 Armd Regt they probabley couldnt even hit your ass while it was stationary...

Brian looks like youve nailed the description of auto drivers (particularly the idiot instructor at work) on the head.

Originally Posted by Brian Hjelm

ill-educated, barely literate, poorly trained, unwilling, disinterested, swaddie drivers

remeber you said it first :P

and to Rangieman.

Me, a ****e stirrer,

it'd never happen.

I should probabley point out that this particualar series of tests came about because MR "I love Autos" told me i was flat out wrong to think that a manual would have stayed in gear during a technical descent whereas the auto toymota droped out after the driver staked the cooler and radiator. and that you could push start an auto... FFS this guy is supposed to be teaching me stuff...

**Slunnie** · 8th October 2006, 09:26 PM

But I do have a real 4WD, with synchromeshless 1st and 2nd, live axles front and rear, leaf springs from when things were made tough, heck, it even has sliding windows..... none of this fancy schmancy power sliding window stuff. But, well..... the auto disco just was never built like the ol' Landy.

**Blknight.aus** · 8th October 2006, 09:38 PM

springs, springs?!? luxury I tells ya, back in my day we had to get up at least half an hour before we needed to drive out, trudge a few miles though snow and sleet, barefoot across *****le grass to gather the firewood to light the fire under the boiler to get the steam up to drive... And we had wooden wheels, I suppose now you'll complain about having cross plies and sliding windows, We used to dream of having windows on the old stanely we didnt even have a roof and if the wind blew the wrong way we got to school all sooty and then we'd get six of the best for getting there dirty... and did you hear me complain....

someone in my other post re: removing mags, mentioned anger management. this is my anger management, I defy anyone to site there and write in a thread like this without smiling or grinning

**dullbird** · 8th October 2006, 09:48 PM

you can drive an auto while you are a sleep!!! and can quite easily hit a lampost without interupting your z's............

none of this shake shake rattle rattle because the car is pleading with you to change down.

dullbird

**JDNSW** · 8th October 2006, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

springs, springs?!? luxury I tells ya, back in my day we had to get up at least half an hour before we needed to drive out, trudge a few miles though snow and sleet, barefoot across *****le grass to gather the firewood to light the fire under the boiler to get the steam up to drive... And we had wooden wheels, I suppose now you'll complain about having cross plies and sliding windows, We used to dream of having windows on the old stanely we didnt even have a roof and if the wind blew the wrong way we got to school all sooty and then we'd get six of the best for getting there dirty... and did you hear me complain....

someone in my other post re: removing mags, mentioned anger management. this is my anger management, I defy anyone to site there and write in a thread like this without smiling or grinning

You've left out the hassle of catching and harnessing the team, plus having to groom and feed them when you got home.........

John

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Manual lover wins the auto/manual fight...(rant posting)

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