Ford Selling Landrover?

The problem with Quigger's otherwise excellent plan is that at present, Land Rover do not own the motors they put in their vehicles. Well, I can't speak for the petrol motors, but the V6 and V8 diesels are shared with other manufacturers (Peugeot, isn't it?), the Petrol 6 and new Defender donk are Ford mills and surely the Td4 is on the way out if the Td5 doesn't meet regulations.

The Discover/RRS platform accounts for well over 1/2 of their sales and as you say, it is conceivable that it could be the basis for yet another RR.

Having a second platform that underpins the Defer/Freo pairing makes sense except that the Defender is a utility and does not in any way have overlap with the Freelander.

I continue to expect, as one of the analysis points recently posted suggested, that the Defender will be shelved when the current chassis/bodywork fails to meet higher crashworthiness standards for the UK market, which I gather is expected to be 2013. At that time they may sell the tooling and/or design to an emerging market - I think India is probably the standout chance, though Malasian or Chinese manufacturers would have to be interested as well.

It is an ideal product to manufacture somewhere where pay rates are low and in-house R&D in short supply. It can be easily adapted to almost any motor given the right gearbox ratios, as Ford have shown. It can be constructed by hand from the constituent parts, allowing outsourcing of more complex elements.

As for keeping it - it adds nearly nothing to the bottom line - the profit is in the other 4 lines. At the moment it doesn't require any R&D worth speaking of, so still makes them money. If they need to design a new one and tool up, then I seriously doubt it.

I would expect instead that a retro design (or updated Defender styled body) will be put on the Disco underpinnings, might or might not be called Defender, but will definitely NOT be a utility vehicle.

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Originally Posted by scrambler

The Discover/RRS platform accounts for well over 1/2 of their sales and as you say, it is conceivable that it could be the basis for yet another RR.

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The 2007 RR is based on the D3 / RRS platform already. It just looks similar to the 2006 on the outside only.

So 1 design does the Range Rover for 25 years, and then 3 clean-sheet designs in the next 15? It's a wonder they are making any money on them!

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Well, I can't speak for the petrol motors, but the V6 and V8 diesels are shared with other manufacturers

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The petrol V8's are Jag motors

Quiggers - That's genius (well, apart from point 13).

Er AFAIK, the Jaguar motors are a version of the Ford Modular V8, as fitted to Mustang and several other Fords.
Of course no one in Jaguar would say this out loud. Same with Aston Martin V8.
Jaguar will have the same problem.
How can small manufacturers spend the megadollars necessary now to develop engines to suit emission laws.
Regards Philip A

BMW bought Landrover and the mini

They sold Landrover but still own the mini

Does that the mini is a more complex car and they haven't figured out the technology involved in making it.

Really you guys and conspiracy theories go well together

The simplest answer is the best Landrover was seen as specialist marque once they bought it they realised that they needed to spend billions to make the thing at BMW standards of quality and reliability and sold it off as being outside their core markets.

The only problem with the otherwise excellent analysis is that Land Rover is history in poor "black Africa?" markets. They all love Toyotas except for the lunantic fringe and Pommy expats.
The Malaysian manufacturer( Proton) is broke and looking for a buyer. Being clairvoyant, I predicted this in 1982 on the opening of the plant, even when the entire building and equipment cost was provided by the Malaysian Government.
BTW the Proton plant was State of the art Mitsubishi in 1982, and I took the then MD of Mitsubishi OZ through it, and he was jealous. To think that it could run hand built Defenders down the line is laughable.
I seriously doubt the Chinese would be interested , although they bought Rover and labour is cheap, so this shows that they may be a few brain cells short.
I would think any new plants in China would be for export and what use a Defender if it doesn't meet any safety standards. In any case , every manufacturer in the World is in China, and the Defender would be so expensive compared to any competition it would be no contest. Although I suppose they only need a small percentage of eccentrics with a population of 1.2 billion or so.
The Defender is the last hand built car in the World AFAIK. Thats why I love my Rangie Classic, it was the second last. They will be remembered fondly by Pommys, expat pommys, and wannabe eccentrics like me.
Regards Philip A

I can also see another problem if & when LR & Jag are sold, the jag is built on the ford modeo floor pan, the D3 & RR sport share the ford exploder floor pan, this will be one of the biggest hurdles for a new owner to overcome.

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Originally Posted by PhilipA

The only problem with the otherwise excellent analysis is that Land Rover is history in poor "black Africa?" markets. They all love Toyotas except for the lunantic fringe and Pommy expats.
The Malaysian manufacturer( Proton) is broke and looking for a buyer. Being clairvoyant, I predicted this in 1982 on the opening of the plant, even when the entire building and equipment cost was provided by the Malaysian Government.
BTW the Proton plant was State of the art Mitsubishi in 1982, and I took the then MD of Mitsubishi OZ through it, and he was jealous. To think that it could run hand built Defenders down the line is laughable.
I seriously doubt the Chinese would be interested , although they bought Rover and labour is cheap, so this shows that they may be a few brain cells short.
I would think any new plants in China would be for export and what use a Defender if it doesn't meet any safety standards. In any case , every manufacturer in the World is in China, and the Defender would be so expensive compared to any competition it would be no contest. Although I suppose they only need a small percentage of eccentrics with a population of 1.2 billion or so.
The Defender is the last hand built car in the World AFAIK. Thats why I love my Rangie Classic, it was the second last. They will be remembered fondly by Pommys, expat pommys, and wannabe eccentrics like me.
Regards Philip A

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You obviously know a LOT more about the manufacturers than I do, Phillip A :D. Might have been safer if I'd suggested some other "tiger" economy.

While I agree about the shrinking market share, surely a large part is the ridiculous price of such a basic car, and the failure of the motor design to deliver what is required in emerging markets - simplicity of repair and reliability of running.

Santana of Spain can turn out the PS-10, also a lineal descendent of the Series Land Rovers, with a retail in the UK some 2-4000 pounds less than the equivalent Defender. You only need to compare pictures of a 1980's Land Rover and the equivalent Santana, and then view the current models of each, to see which firm has done more R and D (and as a hint, it isn't Land Rover).

http://www.santanauk.com/stormforceinside.asp

Another manufacturer with a lower cost base should be able to make the Defender pay. If not, than Santana will fill the gap. FFS, they are building what amounts to a Series 5 (they built what they called a Series 4 during the late 80's and early 90's).

The Defender ceased to make sense within Land Rover when the last D2 was built. There ceased to be commonality of design at that moment, and Land Rover was moving upmarket (as has the whole market for off-road vehicles).

So I'll take on board what you say about China and Malaysia, Phillip. I still think that India has to be a chance, given the number of ancient British vehicle designs still made there (did I say Enfield? Morris?) but whatever happens to the design, it will cease being a Land Rover.

Maybe, just maybe, they'll badge-engineer it back to a Land Rover (esp if the suggestion that all future models will be Range Rover come about) but I doubt it.