Nation of suck ups.

I forgot to say that I appreciate having the Yanks as allies but sometimes I wonder if they would really come
to our aid if we were seriously threatened ?
Or would economics play a part in their decision ?
Would our attackers have a larger consumer benifit to
American trade and big business ? What would be in it for the Yanks, would intervention help to keep America safe and prosperous. After all that's the only thing that
matters !
I would be happy to pay higher taxes to build up our
defense forces and capability to deter eyeballers !
I'd even buy the Army new rifles.
A lot of people protested when there was talk of having an American military base on our soil.
I dont want it either, we dont need it but there might
come a time when it would be in our interests to have
an American presence on our shores up north.
Gaum is being done over as a huge military base but
a Battle Group located up in the Gulf might come in handy. At least it would have the buggers committed
if they were here in a small capacity.
At least in future times that dickheaded Dubbya would
be a thing of the past, eh.
I also like the emerging Chinese, tho not their Commo doctrine. I have known many Chinese people and can
call some of them Mates.
America is trying hard to make them the next cold war
enemy but they are being stiffled by American big business interests who want to trade with them, like us.
When it comes down to it, China has only ever interfered with one other country and that was Tibet.
They have to be condembed for that.
Also, unlike those other revolting Bastards they dont have a whaling fleet !
The chinese dont go around killing lots of outsiders.
Themselves yes, but once again I couldn't care less.
Sad to say tho, that since WW11, the Yanks have killed far more allied men, women and children than they have killed the so called enemy.
They condone these deaths by saying that it needs to happen in the fight for Democracy and to keep America safe. The dead allies should be proud for playing their part. Thats how the condi ricebubble explained it.
I saw the interview. Got to be something wrong with that !
I am a supporter of the Yanks internal gun laws !
Cheers, I hope.

PS:
I supported the Korean and Vietnam wars, still do, even
tho more innocents than enemy died.
I supported the first Gulf war also. It was a great sight to see those mugslims getting their asses cooked while they were running away. That was about the only time when the innocents didn't die by our hands.
I do not support the present Gulf war because it came
about by lies and deceit and the three that brought it
on, ( bush, cheney and rumsfelt ), I consider the biggest threat to world peace and security.
But then I considerer just who it is thats getting killed
and think who cares !
I do support our presence there and in Afganistan
because we have to support our Allies when they need us.
I can remember the scenes when the taliban executed the women at the soccer stadium that the west built
them. When we protesed about the stadium being used
for such a purpose the taliban said its an ideal place
so why not just build us another soccer stadium for
sport.
They are the major drug producers, so I would be in favour of the yanks saturating the place with agent orange and have all of the inhabitants relocate to serbia.
Cheers.

In reply to quote below "Those who have No ****ing clue" ?? Pull your head in.

Even if America hadnt sat on the side lines during world war 2 selling arms to both sides until near the end and even if they hadn't starved Japan of Coal, forcing Japan into the War. Just lets for a minute, stick our collective heads up our arses and believe all ther PR crap written by Hollywood over the last fifty years. They have gone to far over the last twenty years..... Even the most loyal of dogs is shot if it goes mad.

I dont care if they saved the universe fifty bloody years ago......HISTORY can't hurt me ,, today and the future can.

And yeh all my forefathers have fought in all the wars on our side, and yes i am off very soon for the same, Doesn't mean you have to blindly follow lunatics.
We are big boys and have always been respected for our integrity internationally,, something that is quickly disappearing.
:twisted:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mudmouse

As for being 'suck ups' i think it's more a matter of recognising your limitations and working with people or organisations to better yourself - whether thats a country, business or individual. History shows, and will continue to show, how Oz cannot exist on it's own with stubborn idealism.

APEC was one week! Have a look around the house and count how many things are produced in Australia..we need bigger brothers, oil, uranium and ore sales....the WA boys will back that.

..and the appreciation of their support during the War years is getting too easily dismissed by those who have no f*cking clue how close it was. We're still very very lucky to have what we've got.

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None of this crap has anything to do with the leaders of the other countries, it was all Bush, Bush has gone home, but howard is still meeting with the boss man of canada and china today and tomorrow. Is all the security still around? No of course its not, Bush isnt in the country anymore so no need. I bet Bush was the only leader to bring 650 staff and his own vehicles or the motorcade.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by duff

"Those who have No ****ing clue" ?? Pull your head in.

forcing Japan into the War. :twisted:

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Oh, forced, were they? I see. And meanwhile in Europe it was the US at the Treaty of Versailles that "forced" Hitler to take over all of Europe and butcher all those people. Those crazy muslims were "forced" to fly two jets into the WTC because Bush and Howard were the bigger terrorists.

I don't know what planet you people are living on. But you're living on it thanks to the US in particualr and western capitalist countries in general (no, I don't mean you, France).

One day I might meet an anti-US bleater who isn't a giant phoney. We saw a lot of anti-Bush protestors but not too many anti Ju or anti Putin protestors, we can deduce from this that the protestors don't give a rats about freedom of speech, workers rights, peace and a decent standard living. What do they give a rats about? Posing and bludging and fondling themselves for the benefit of nobody - that's my call.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ralph1Malph

Hi, been following this thread with interest and only just decided to add my two bobs worth. ...

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Ralph

Your opinions are worth every bit as much as everyone else's - that is democracy working. (I love democracy just not necessarily the Democratic Party in the US or the essentially defunct Democrats over here, although I do have centre left leanings! )

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ralph1Malph

... Before I get razzed on it's fair to say that I am conservative leaning, and being a Soldier I am also pro interventionist.

Lotz-A-Landies,
Why would we not be in Iraq? It is a world problem, not just Americas. Yes I am biased I guess,;) having recently returned from there, but it is a seriously fugged up country! ....

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From the outset I was and maintained my stance against the war. Even wrote to John Howard prior to the war saying what has happened would happen and got his standard letter reply. This war was always about the oil, Donald Rumsfeld even stated it is about 1997 "That's our oil" he said.

I have no objection to the intervention in Afghanistan. HOWEVER there was never any evidence that Al Qaeda was in Iraq and they are there now only because of the the Invasion by the "coalition of the willing".

Saddam could not have lived forever and he was only as much a tyrant as Muggabe is in Zimbabwe.

Now that we have created the mess-O-ptamia the coalition of the not so willing is forced to remain.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ralph1Malph

The strife was inevitable and they are killing themselves as is their time immemorial tradition, the coalition isn't.

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Since before biblical times there has been the same type of sectarian fighting. Why should we (the US and friends) have become the focus of it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ralph1Malph

Not sure why we aren't in Zim, but why we are not intervening in Palestine is simple....there is no such country:eek:.

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I seem to remember that our grandfathers (or great grandfathers) in the 1st, 2nd, 4th and 5th Divisions and the Australian Desert Corps fought in Palestine. I also seem to remember that there was a UN sanctioned division of the country into the Israeli territories and also somewhere for the Palestinians. If the bit where the Israelis live is Israel then surely the bit where the Palestinians live (and have lived for hundreds of years) should be called Palestine?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ralph1Malph

Many people flag the UN as needing to step up in many areas, well they did in the middle of last century by creating Israel and in the process consigning Palestine to history. For any country to advocate the return of Palestine is in disagreeance with the UN.
No member nation would do that. :angel:

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It is only because of the US that Israel exists, and it is only the continued powers and monetary support of the US that Israel continues to exist. Also you will find that the 1993 Oslo Accord included as a criterion for peace signed by both Israel and the Palestinians a "future Palestinian State".

In regard to the rest of the rant: Arabs have as much right to be Arabs as jews have to be jewish. It is the Europeans who drew lines in the sand and gave them names, they were once all arab lands belonging to all the various sects and tribes. Just because the French and British decided where Mesopotamia was and which bit was Syria doesn't mean that they were correct. If they were where is Kurdistan?

End of Rant.
Diana

BTW. While I don't support the war, I do support the soldiers who are following the instructions of our elected government.

Many discussions in this topic, too many for such a forum,, but basically I am just sick off people trying to justify invading counties and killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people by saying it is for the power of good over evil. CODS WALLOP. its about oil and resources in general. Even East Timor had huge oil implications for regional powers. (which is cool, the strong prevail) but we are no better than any other super power throughout time. we look after ourselves first
"if you aren't with us you are with the terrorists against us" GW Bush stated something along these lines, and then followed with "and we will hunt down and kill all terrorists". So don't **** me with we are hero's fighting evil terrorists. we are simply on one side of the conflict. For many of the worlds population we are the terrorists (embargoes or bombs,, they both kill innocent people)...

In Reply to quote-- OK so Forced was an emotive description. But the fact is Japan stayed out of the war and went through many world etiquettes to have their resources turned back on. They had as a matter of record, approached the world and highlighted that because of the world tensions and consumption of resources(coal and oil) their people were faced with devastation. They indicated clearly that if the resources that they had access to for years were not returned they would be faced with starvation as a nation or take desperate steps(Do or Die). The US and the rest of the Anglo Saxon world had the power to do this and didn't...... So like us in the western world faced with the desperate consequences of loss of oil control,,, the Japs chose to try and secure the needed resource via Military Mite.

SO maybe not FORCED but "Cause and effect" in play.
AND I'm sorry but none of this is new... since the days of the Romans a world super Power has tried to control the world in the fashion they see fit.. the Romans were wrong, the British were wrong, the Germans where wrong, the Japs were wrong, the Russians were wrong, and by trend I am afraid the Americans are wrong.... and like every single one of the dictators before them they will probably fail...They will expend all their resources until they are faced with humiliating shrinkage as a world power,, well I hope because the other option is a very nasty 'ALA Germany'.
But I do note that perhaps Australia is still savvy,, we are hedgeing our bets and getting cosy with CHINA, the one country(super power) that has existed in one form or another the whole time and morfed into what ever is needed at the time.

Very condensed rant here, but i believe people should look beyond the "big ticket" western written history and look at history as one long story, it is surprisingly common threaded (not-cause and effect again)
Not supporting Germany's actions in Europe.. But in their eyes they were attempting to re balance the world to their ideologies, the world had been changed by outsiders (JEWS) and other unrelated world events dramatically over the previous 80 years. They employed preemptive strikes on countries that they believed to threaten their own peoples way of life,, they attempted to secure world oil supplies. they financially propped up countries sympathetic to their own cause,, OHH hang on, largely what the yanks are doing now.... I am employed to support the machine securing our way of life,, and will unquestionably do so, but don't try and tell me its for the good of the people we slaughter.. its for us and only us.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JamesH

Oh, forced, were they? I see. And meanwhile in Europe it was the US at the Treaty of Versailles that "forced" Hitler to take over all of Europe and butcher all those people. Those crazy muslims were "forced" to fly two jets into the WTC because Bush and Howard were the bigger terrorists.

I don't know what planet you people are living on. But you're living on it thanks to the US in particualr and western capitalist countries in general (no, I don't mean you, France).

One day I might meet an anti-US bleater who isn't a giant phoney. We saw a lot of anti-Bush protestors but not too many anti Ju or anti Putin protestors, we can deduce from this that the protestors don't give a rats about freedom of speech, workers rights, peace and a decent standard living. What do they give a rats about? Posing and bludging and fondling themselves for the benefit of nobody - that's my call.

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We could go on for ever about this so reply if you like, I like to hear all peoples views,, but it is emotive so I am off topic now.. getting a bit beyond Land Rover stuff.