Land Rover Engineer Requires Info

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Originally Posted by abaddonxi

From the members list, last logged in 9 May, so still lurking.

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Considering he is still looking I will post my views on my LR experience from a new model perspective which I think he was searching for. My FL2 is my first LR and my first foray into 4wding.

Simply put the terrain response is great. I notice the difference between the modes and it seems to me to be doing what is correct for the conditions, like LR know better than me how the car should be driven which is true. I notice the car holding gear longer and drive put to the rear from standstill among others. It gives real confidence when off the tarmac, if I have it in gravel mode and see some mud I just turn the dial and know that the car is set properly for the conditions.

I like in sand mode that it tells me manual shift is recommended and that it actually allows the wheels to spin. I have taken it through some soft sand and you can feel the car is trying to keep maximum torque and is doing its best to maintain forward motion at all costs.

I'm not sure if gravel mode changes the DSC operation but when cornering hard on purpose on gravel in an effort to loose traction the car will have a tendency to run wide. The natural instinct is to lift off the throttle and you can feel the car tighten its line considerably without fuss. I think DSC may be applying brake pressure to the outside wheels in this instance? I like though when you want a bit of fun you can turn DSC off for a bit of 4 wheel drifting.

Mud I haven't had a lot of experience with. The little I've tried I was quite impressed. I had the front wheels out of the ruts and the back in them which forced me diagonally down the track. Learning my mistake I reversed and got the car within the ruts. Onlookers were surprised I was able to do this so easily considering the conditions. All I was doing was steering the car where I wanted to go.

Overall I think the FL2 hits the mark in what it offers its target market. I will likely outgrow my FL2 as I continue to demand more from it but as the entry vehicle to the brand it has certainly given me the feeling that I am driving the best off road vehicle in its class. I feel like I have the ability to go places other cars can not while having a car that is fun on the tarmac. Easy to drive, fantastic diesel engine and overall it has a premium feel to it while giving you added assurance of a great safety rating. Simply a great car that does more than you expect it to.

It's been pretty easy in the last part of this thread to get caught up in an argument about our own choice of car and there are those of us who will trust electronics and those who won't and I don't think they will be easy to get to see the same point. This has got me thinking again about the original question as to what Landrover should do to improve the off road ability of their vehicles and I have heeded some of the comments in previous posts. If we assume that things like traction control and terrain response are good things that really just electronically duplicate locked diffs and other mods (and I know that not all of you will agree but bear with me for a little while :)) then what needs to be done to make them more bush friendly?

In the industries where computers can be a matter of life and death like aircraft and military and areas where they just have to keep going for things like money then what is done to make sure they don't cause problems? Mostly it is all about backups and ease of replacement. Some of the things earlier in the thread were sensible like having replaceable modules and there could also be backup systems built into the existing electronics. In a financial application or in the internet then there are many routes by which information can get from one place to another, if one fails it just goes via another route. There are also often easy replacement spares available just sitting in a cupboard all configured and ready to go.

If we translate this into the world of 4wd in the bush then what we need are -

Inbuilt systems with multiple redundant paths through the vehicle so things will keep working even if one wire gets damaged.
Backup central Processing units in place that will automatically kick in in the event of a failure.
Modules that are easily diagnosable and replaceable so that we can just carry spares in the same way that we would carry a spare fan belt. Electronics are not as cheap as a fan belt but they are not that expensive when compared to the cost of the whole vehicle.
Maybe even some way of setting the vehicle into a "manual" mode so that the basics will keep working enough to get out of trouble.
Some way to plug a standard laptop in (which I usually have along to process photos anyway) and diagnose and reset faults.

There may also need to be work done on some of the things like weak diffs if they truly are as bad as some of the other posters are saying.

As far as I am concerned things like tyres and fuel capacity can be aftermarket fixed and I don't necessarily think they are a real problem.

Would that still be a car that anyone can afford? I am not sure but it should not be too hard to achieve.

Lastly I suppose an alternative vehicle that has none of the above for all those who still think computers are the spawn of the devil :twisted:.

Tim.

I'd like a Rubicon Defender 90 , with a diesel.

Dark Blue.;)

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Originally Posted by Zute

I'd like a Rubicon Defender 90 , with a diesel.

Dark Blue.;)

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:lol2: :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Timj

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As far as I am concerned things like tyres and fuel capacity can be aftermarket fixed and I don't necessarily think they are a real problem.

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Tim.

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On the wheel/tyre front, most were asking for bigger diameter tyres which can only legally be fitted after having the vehicle 'engineered', and that's a hell of a hassle, better have the factory supply it with 33-34" tyres from new, and why not a better fuel capacity from the factory when the opposition can do it ? Our Patrol can hold 180 litres of diesel and that's standard, no ticking the option box or anything like that. The Defender ? 79 litres.........

There are always going to be two camps, those that want all the bells and whistles, some luxury, lots of electronics, and those that want a tough, basic go anywhere machine with some, but limited, electronics. (The TC/ABS on my Defender I like and has been the only reliable part of the vehicle, I also like electric windows, they still work as well).

What we want is an all new Defender built to modern quality control standards at a reasonable price. (Though I would willingly pay more if came with factory lockers, bigger tyres, upgraded suspension etc ala Jeep Rubicon). Also want a choice of motors, 4 cyl diesel for the economy lovers and a TdV8 for the rest of us. :cool:

I am not convinced by the current Defender and would not buy one. At the moment if I buy another new vehicle it won't be a Land Rover.

Thanks for all the latest comments, I do check every day for new replies although I don't always log on. They are all very interesting and are a great help.

I'm coming over to Oz next year so I might even get to chat to some of you in person.

Cheers

That'd be great, any idea on when/where?

In my 1st post in this thread, contrasted the best selling 4x4 in Australia, the Hilux to the only comparable Land Rover.

I was informed yesterday, and it was confirmed by another person, of a report that claimed , in recent months the Hilux was not just the most popular 4x4, but the best selling vehicle in Australia. It outsold popular family sedans like Camry and Commodore.

I would love to see Land Rover win back some of the 4x4 market here but they are concentrating on vehicles that don't appeal, or are too expensive to large numbers.

I missed the budget speach the other night, but heard a snippet about increased tax on luxury vehicles - another nail in Land Rovers coffin, I fear.

your right & dead on the money........if landy executives had there heads on right 25 years ago they could now have most of the world market.....

what about prado sales figures they are pretty good as well
cheers
paul