Rudds apology

We do run a westminster legal system, with a modified version that has been updated to include our rights under a democracy, also as per the constitution. It still has links back to a monarchy. Overall majority rule is supposed to prevail. The problem is that when a government wins office they believe that they then have the mandate to do whatever they want. This is not the case and was not a major election promise. It should have gone to a referendum when the election was taking place. A democracy by nature can not get a majority populus vote on every item on the agenda, hence why we vote in representatives, but something this important should.
Some are happy with todays result, some are not for a multitude of reasons. If it brings peace to some , great, but I doubt it. Lets move forward and address the real problems now, not the feel good apology that in fact will do nothing. All the hype and funding that was directed into this arena would have been better placed assisting people in real need here and now, not something that happened 30-200 years ago. At the end of the day I am not going to lose any sleep over it, but can see the repercussions.
Live in the present not the past.
Germany still paying compensation? To who? Several of my Uncles were POWs and treated appalingly, yet they did not, nor will get, nor asked for compensation. Yet they put their lives on the line to protect everyone in our great country. Where do we draw the line on who gets apologised to and who does not?? Everyone would be apologising for history for some time to come.
Why is it when anyone speaks out against a minority, Hitler is refered to?? There is no comparrison at all, just an agenda to silence opponents of certain actions by making them appear to be racist. 6 million plus murdered and we are comparing! please!

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Originally Posted by Turtle61

I am with waynep. Disappointed at some of the attitudes displayed on this forum. :( :no2:


Moving on...

As to the comment(s) regarding WWII victims: Germany is still paying compensation (60 years on) to people who were on forced labour during WWII in Germany. It is far better to have a compensation scheme than to have each effected individual going through the courts and the only people benefiting from all that would be the lawyers.

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I have to ask why Turtle? Just because our view points are not similar? That is a fact of life and will always occur. I think it is way too simplistic to think an apology will solve everything. There are many people that have faced far worse attrocities than being removed from their families.
If the apology helps these people move on then fantastic, but most of us can see it for what it is and an opportunity to get compensation.
We have been hearing all this for years, but the situation remains the same has it has for many years in a lot of communities, remote, urban and suburban with abuse, drug and alcohol dependency, violence etc. Unfortuanately this is not uniique to any one race or culture.This is what we really need to address and give the kids a chance to make their own way, not stuck in a revolving door.
I think this may have caused more division than unity, which is not the way forward.
I think I probablly should shut up now as this is a highly emotional subject.

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Originally Posted by tombraider

Who's going to say sorry to all the Liverpool? children who were taken to Australia around the same time?

No-one...

This was a total waste of time and taxpayers ....

kRudd does not represent me in this nation...


Now he's recognised that the "land belongs to the indigenous" who's going to be happy when they come and claim back their land that your house is on?


Its very simple people... The older residents of this place are part of a conquered race....

Like what has happened in many other places throughout the world...

Deal with it people....

And how far advanced would these people be if explorers hadnt come here? They seem to sure enjoy the benefits of modern society...

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They can't they can only claim public (ie) crown land under the native title act.

What your saying is scare mongering.

It's clear from some of the comments that most have no idea what has happened to these people over the last 200yrs, i think maybe we should have a little google too maybe enlighten your minds.

Then move on and maybe try to show some sort of compassion for your fellow man.

Baz.

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Originally Posted by CraigE

I have to ask why Turtle? Just because our view points are not similar? That is a fact of life and will always occur. I think it is way too simplistic to think an apology will solve everything.

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I am not disappointed or indeed surprised at the fact that we do not share the same point of view. It would be simplistic and narrow-mined to expect that, but ATTITUDE is not the same as a VIEWPOINT. What I am mostly disappointed with is the way these different viewpoints are expressed and unfortunately they APPEAR to be expressed with a supremacist, colonial, dismissive and bordering (in some cases) on racist attitudes. Quite a difference there. One can express one's viewpoint critically without prejudice or judgement or stand on a soapbox and shout. The sad thing is that most people tend to listen to the shouting...

No, apology will not solve everything nor it's meant to, but it's a bloody good start to right the wrongs.

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Originally Posted by CraigE

I think I probablly should shut up now as this is a highly emotional subject.

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We could get into endless arguments on invasions, bringing 'civilisation' to other people and so on and so on.

But you're right. Too emotional. It's done. Our democratically elected representative has apologised. Let's move on. That's it from me.

As a topic this has the ability to become highly emotive and lead to to and fro slanging matches. I do not intend to offend anyone, i have some good friends that are native australians.
However we are all adults with different views and perspectives.
Without thoroughly researching the main reasons why children were taken from their parents, i beleive it had a lot to do with the church. The churches vehicle was government legislation, taming the natives.

The bit I object to is the riff raff that came out to be interviewed , some claiming to have been 'stolen' thirty years ago. hell I joined the cops not long after that time frame, plus was working in a government organisation. I don;t recall any children stolen, i do however recall children being placed in care by the forerunners of DOCS, for being neglected illtreated and generally not looked after. I recall being bottled one night by a group of 12 year olds at the 'block' after midnight and they were all drunk, is this the group i should feel sorry for or say sorry to!!! Or the local land councils that were given millions and millions of dollars and have nothing to show for it, where are the houses? oh thats right cold night needed wood.
Unfortunately the academics do not get down to the ground level to see how things really are. It is the footsoldiers of the legislation who see it as it really is.
letter to the local member is in order.

thats my ramble , thank you.


john

What is really important is where we go from here.

What I hope will happen is that the Aboriginal population will feel that perhaps the government and the rest of Australia do actually care about what happens to them and this will lead to a more positive attitude within themselves about their future. The government also need to push ahead with trying to find ways of solving the current problems that exist and the only way to do this is to work with the Aboriginal population which probably wouldn't have worked without this apology.

Let's look on the bright side. :cool:

:):o:eek::(:mellow:

Ok.

I watched all 30mins of Rudd's speech, then the 20mins of Nelson's speech, followed by the actions after.
Having heard a bit said about it makes me wonder if some people actually are aware of what was said. Rudd's speech was very diplomatic.

On compensation, I heard both leaders say no to it. Didn't you?
I feel that addressing the issues is a better way of compensation, apart from reducing future liabilities.

Alright, the paragraph that otherwise goes here has been made redundant by Frenchie. (thank you)
:):)

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Originally Posted by CraigE

I think this may have caused more division than unity, which is not the way forward.

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I think you're quite wrong there. I think this will create more unity than the naysayers will be prepared to see.

It takes a brave man to freely express his views, but an even braver one to look inside himself and expunge all those irrational fears and dark long held prejudices.

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Originally Posted by Turtle61

I am not disappointed or indeed surprised at the fact that we do not share the same point of view. It would be simplistic and narrow-mined to expect that, but ATTITUDE is not the same as a VIEWPOINT. What I am mostly disappointed with is the way these different viewpoints are expressed and unfortunately they APPEAR to be expressed with a supremacist, colonial, dismissive and bordering (in some cases) on racist attitudes. Quite a difference there. One can express one's viewpoint critically without prejudice or judgement or stand on a soapbox and shout. The sad thing is that most people tend to listen to the shouting...

No, apology will not solve everything nor it's meant to, but it's a bloody good start to right the wrongs.



We could get into endless arguments on invasions, bringing 'civilisation' to other people and so on and so on.

But you're right. Too emotional. It's done. Our democratically elected representative has apologised. Let's move on. That's it from me.

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I'm with you Turtle......

Ray

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Originally Posted by Sprint

2: anyone else wonder what wouldve happened if say, one of our asian neighbors had colonised australia instead of the brits? there wouldnt be any sorry days, no apologies, no compensation, no "stolen" generation, nothing like that...... why? theres a VERY good chance there wouldnt be any aboriginals to say sorry to

am i sorry? what for?

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mmmm the French, Dutch , Portugal and Spainish were all very close.
If any of them had claimed Australia then there would be no problems . After all the South Americans don't have problems with the Inca's do they ;)