The Anti-Nance Man
But I guess that is one of my points, should I or anyone else be concerned about what such and such is earning in such and such a profession.......and seems this only pertains to professions, no one is sticking their hand up for say a retails sales assistant, or the bloke cleaning dunnies, or the toll collector...guaranteed their not on $50k+ a yr.It's not a bad wage per se, but as I said, in the scheme of things, comparing it to the "average" wage, and there are not many couples with two wages of that amount who are setting up a home and having children. Also if you look at what a nurse is expected to do to earn a wage at all, is it any wonder they leave the profession in droves. Their choice of course.
Most engineers, accountants and solicitors that I have had anything to do with are doing better than that, and what about tradies in the building industry. I am not trying to turn this into a nurses only thread, (there are others who can take up that cause), just pointing out what obviously a lot of people miss in going about their own existence.
Don't get me wrong, I have been to hospital and take my hat off to nurses, but I also take my hat off to alot of other people in various professions/ jobs as I know I couldnt do it in a million yrs. But in all of this, it is a CHOICE. If I apply for a position, know the type of work, know the wage, get accepted then complain about it, whose fault is that? And I think people have a right to not have to worry about what is going on in someone else's "existance", they have their own existance to worry about...ie self responsibility, family responsibility.
In my case I have a current family of 6 including myself to support and another one on the way. I have a mortgage, debts, a fledgling business to run....with a fair whack of stress in conjunction with all that....why should I care if someone else in another line of work is ticked off at the choices they have made? Guaranteed, folks arent going,hmmm " Geez wonder how the peeps in the finance industry are going".
Also in general and I think Utemad knocked it on the head, many will go the flash rental as opposed to the older, further out place they can buy. In local paper, lass had parents help her buy a place, she could have done it herself, but she wanted to be 5mins from the city, so cost more, so needed help to do it. With all the "can't buy a house/ property" and those that concur.....do a search on one of the real estate websites. If I was in that situation, I could move 35mins from where I am and buy a reasonably priced place, or buy an investment unit or cheaper property to rent out for under $300k, in many cases closer to $200k. Its the old adage, where theres a will there is a way. My SIL and her hubby, now 24 and 23, bought a townhouse at 100%, they have sold it and come out with a deposit for a new house...they have the will and worked out the way,
Regards
Stevo
ForumSage
I don't think that is quite the essence of what Steve is trying to say. More like make informed decisions / choices then accept responsibility for what you do.Originally Posted by Numpty's Missus
So "It's every man for himself" ? Sorry but this all sounds a little selfish to me.
Of course, that is just my interpretation, I am sure he will answer as well.
The Anti-Nance Man
Bigjon pretty much nailed it for meQuote:
Originally Posted by stevo68
In my case I have a current family of 6 including myself to support and another one on the way. I have a mortgage, debts, a fledgling business to run....with a fair whack of stress in conjunction with all that....why should I care if someone else in another line of work is ticked off at the choices they have made? Guaranteed, folks arent going,hmmm " Geez wonder how the peeps in the finance industry are going"
Regards
Stevo
So "It's every man for himself" ? Sorry but this all sounds a little selfish to me.
Fact is, the world has become a very selfish place. Everyone concerned only with themselves. I look after myself first as well...but I also do consider others. Not much we can do about some of the others tho is there, but I will add that selfish would be if I was on my own, earnt big dollars and couldnt give a rats about anyone else...that is selfish. In fact, I work hard to provide for my family of 4, almost 5 children....how can that be deemed as selfish. We as a family also donate $$ and sponsor needy children O/S which I have also said earlier in on the thread...is that selfish?
Many people have expressed this concern for others, but expressing it is one thing, doing something about it is another?? I think to hold a view point that we should be concerned about others...but not actually do anything to assist is hypocritical...again only if the hat fits.
So my number one consideration is my immediate family, my children, my extended family and friends. That is my responsibility, it is not also my responsibility to be concerned with how and why other people make their choices...you make the bed...sleep in it,
Regards
Stevo
Master
Supporterthe problem with threads like this is that it distracts users from the 'Technical' forum... Us Land Rover owners have enough microeconomic problems without having to worry about macroeconomics...
TopicToaster
Agreed .
The problem is people go and buy a house that is right on their limit. Becuase it is nice and big and has all the toys . Then when somthing goes wrong, Ie they have kids, problem with the house, car Or interest rates go up. All hell breaks lose and they blame veryone esle for the problems.
Slightly differant loan but same sort of thing
I worked in the Land rover dealership in Brisbane and i had a customer who was in his early 20's He bought in a Mazda sports car (the four door one with the back doors that open the wrong way). It was 18 months old and he wanted a new Disco TDV6
Well for him to get this he would have to borrow the extra $70,000 to buy it , but he already owned $50,000 on the Mazda so even with the trade in of his car he started finace for $110,000 . He was happy with this and drove of the disco from the forcourt. A car now worth £70,000 (if he was lucky , as it was now second hand) of which he owed $110,000 for.. This bloke was as such a kid and had a $110,000 dept and did not even have a house and lived with his mum. I thought it was wrong to give him the loan and inmoral , and left land rover for that main reason . As this was not the only one
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Master
The analogy of "Survival Of The Fittest" in modern society is for the intellectually debunked .
A phrase based in Philosophy by a philosopher has been so vastly misunderstood it is hard to know where to start, or even the value in trying.
Modern society has moved from individualism and competition to an egalitarian level of function in order to be successful....we have moved from the primitive to a more Utopian existance BECAUSE of the value of humanity and the desire to improve the lot of others....suffragetes<sp>
Too much we find those who see themselves as having more using these misunderstood concepts of the poor Charles Darwin to justify an ego position that somehow they are superior or that others are getting what they deserve and it detaches them from having to care or be responsible or initiate a motivation to improve anothers lot.
In following the illogical premise suggested by some, lets say all folks working jobs at 35 k a year made a 'better more informed choice<excuse me while I retch> and downed tools.
BANG.
Collapse.
Compare the world's two leading economies on a sociological viewpoint.
World leader runs on a non egalitarian every man for himself capitalistic philosophy and enjoys 20+ times the murder rate/20+ times the rape rate
30 times the Assault rate, an inefficient public transport system, health system, shocking education system compared to number two who function on an egalitarian economic system
I stress ECONOMIC
The USA has 80 million at the poverty level/ Japan has 112,000
USA 25 million below poverty and 12 million currently die of starvation.
Japan has 30000 below the poverty line and nil dieing of starvation.
Osaka Gas CEO earns 300,000 and bonuses less than double and the company services 22 million people.
The USA enjoys enormous natural resources, like us.
Japan have none. None.
There are real lessons to be learned.
I can see the intention of each poster but I wish I could cut through self interest and make the point that the interest of the group should, and one day soon, must be more important.
ForumSage
Which is fair enough. I call that the sleep at night factor. You have to be happy with what you do. It is your concience speaking.
On the other hand, as long as the loan wasn't forced on him and he made the decision knowing all the facts and of his own free will, what is the issue?
It ends up, once again, at the "take responsibility for your actions" end of the argument again.
ForumSage
LOLthe problem with threads like this is that it distracts users from the 'Technical' forum... Us Land Rover owners have enough microeconomic problems without having to worry about macroeconomics...
Isn't a little distraction from the mundane every day problems a good thing sometimes?
ForumSage
Tango51 - You can see I clicked the thanks icon for your post.
I do enjoy reading what you say, obviously you put more than token thought into your responses. I enjoy the balance and different perspectives that this site has to offer.
The Anti-Nance Man
Look there is no arguing with the differences, I studied this aspect of different cultures at University...going a while back now, but cultures such as Japan etc had a "feminine" perspective...cultures such as ours was deemed "masculine". Some cultures promote group effort, others individual efforts. Is there tax $$$ that I pay that could be better spent...of course.The analogy of "Survival Of The Fittest" in modern society is for the intellectually debunked .
A phrase based in Philosophy by a philosopher has been so vastly misunderstood it is hard to know where to start, or even the value in trying.
Modern society has moved from individualism and competition to an egalitarian level of function in order to be successful....we have moved from the primitive to a more Utopian existance BECAUSE of the value of humanity and the desire to improve the lot of others....suffragetes<sp>
Too much we find those who see themselves as having more using these misunderstood concepts of the poor Charles Darwin to justify an ego position that somehow they are superior or that others are getting what they deserve and it detaches them from having to care or be responsible or initiate a motivation to improve anothers lot.
In following the illogical premise suggested by some, lets say all folks working jobs at 35 k a year made a 'better more informed choice<excuse me while I retch> and downed tools.
BANG.
Collapse.
Compare the world's two leading economies on a sociological viewpoint.
World leader runs on a non egalitarian every man for himself capitalistic philosophy and enjoys 20+ times the murder rate/20+ times the rape rate
30 times the Assault rate, an inefficient public transport system, health system, shocking education system compared to number two who function on an egalitarian economic system
I stress ECONOMIC
The USA has 80 million at the poverty level/ Japan has 112,000
USA 25 million below poverty and 12 million currently die of starvation.
Japan has 30000 below the poverty line and nil dieing of starvation.
Osaka Gas CEO earns 300,000 and bonuses less than double and the company services 22 million people.
The USA enjoys enormous natural resources, like us.
Japan have none. None.
There are real lessons to be learned.
I can see the intention of each poster but I wish I could cut through self interest and make the point that the interest of the group should, and one day soon, must be more important.
My heart has and does go out to those that are truly needy in our society, that due to perhaps circumstance and moreso children, do not have the opportunities that the average Australian does. Does the average Aussie care, I'd most likely say not. Look at the $$$ spent on the Melbourne Cup, if every person was to donate $1.00 3 times a year what a difference that would make. We donate to the Smith Family as mentioned earlier as it goes to children from poorer background's with the hope that they can get an education and an opportunity to do something they want in life. We also donate $$ and support a child oversea's, who will never have close to what we have on offer here. I'm a firm believer in helping those that cannot help themselves. How ever I am not a believer in helping those that can help themselves.
Personally I don't think I am above someone else due to where I may live, what I drive, what I earn, it is more important that I am happy with my lot in life. And that has been the main crux of any of my posts on this subject. If your idea of paradise is working a 35hr week, living in a humble home, working in a stress free job and you love your kids...what more can you ask for? There will always be someone who has more or less than oneself. I've been the person whose idea of success was a flashy car, house, clothes etc...........and lost it all, it was a huge learning curve. I now place value in more important things,
Regards
Stevo
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