Thread: please be nice... patrol vs disco

I had a 1994 200Tdi manual discovery which I did 40,000k in. I've just recently upgraded to a 1997 300Tdi automatic which I've done 5,500 k in.

Fundamentally, the vehicles were the same. Both Discoverys, both turbo diesel (albeit 200/300) but the transmission made the overall package behave like two all together different vehicles.

The manual box had very good ratios for a stock vehicle. I found first was very low [3.692 on the tdi] for general around town driving, and not low enough when towing. 5th was not high enough when cruising at 110, but was perfect when towing at 110. They key thing with the diesel manuals though is that you cannot be lazy. If you need hill climbing power, an increase in speed etc, they wont pull from 1200 rpm by just sticking the boot in. You really do need to downshift - you will find that there is a very narrow band between 2000 and 3000 rpm where the engine is working at its best. In hilly areas I found that I had to drive to an engine speed in any given gear, not a road speed. It is however reported that the 200Tdi had a very undriveable torque curve. Whilst they say that correlation does not imply causation, I found it very "mysterious" that as soon as I had the fuelling tweaked, the gearbox started to let go...

With the auto, the engine seems to have good torque across a wide spread of rpm. I tow an 8x5 tandem regularly and the auto makes much better work of it than the manual. However, the top gear ratio is very high - this a problem when towing at 110, such as on the Hume when you hit a hill. Where the manual was doing 2800-3000 rpm, in its prime, the auto is doing around 2350-2400. It will lose speed very quickly!!! I want to find an auto shop than can modify the valve block so that it locks up in third. I know that it would benefit from driving a 1.000:1 ratio locked up as that is the equivalent of 4th in the manual, and the old one towed flawlessly on hills in 4th!

Given that I do 200k a week just getting to Uni along the monash carpark, I'm much happier with the auto, but there are lots of things to consider, depending on how you want to use it.

When I test drove the autos, I took them well away from the owner's residence and gave them a decent testing. Find a flat bit of ground and bring the revs up to 1,000. Cycle between R and D 20 times. You'll get a good idea of condition by the noises it makes. Take the Shift speeds/engine speeds data from the RAVE with you and make sure its all within specification. Find some hilly areas and see if the auto is confident in its gear selections and holds appropriate gears - or if it carries on like a pork chop and hunts to buggery. If you can have a trans place do a line pressure test - all the better. The tdi autos are slower to get off the line until about 2000 rpm, but if its painfully slow until 2000, there can be a fault with the torque converter giving essentially no torque multiplication (its on the ashcroft site somewhere, i forget the specifics). Also, find a bloody bloody bloody steep hill. Stop halfway up and restart. I tried this with one I looked at and it wouldn't pull away, just revved to buggery. RUN!

When I bought my defender the main thing that got me in was the running costs over time.Look at the cost of fuel,oil changes,tyres etc and you save alot of money.Most Jap 4x4 are modded because they have to be,LR's don't. Pat

If he's not a tinkering kind of guy i would lead him to the patrol even though i hate the way they drive. there is just something about the GQ/GU's that have this steering shimmy/ shake in them, my old man has had 2 GQ's and now a GU and all have had this same shimmy- no where near as nice to drive as a rover.

it looks at this stage that he wants to go witht he patrol too. we'll have do a couple of test drives on the weekend and see what he thinks then. i'm also leaning slightly towards the patrol for him. its a bit like a top gear episode i watched last night, where they are comparing 3 2 door coupes. they all prefer the alfa, but wouldnt reccomend one to their friends. i'm a bit the same with my brother. he'd just rather a car that just works. he's not fussed by how it feels and if it is more enjoyable to drive.
i'll report back on sunday and see whats happened by then.

I reckon the disco, but like you i am biased. My main reason is that because of the perception that land rovers are crap and unreliable the resale values for second hand vehicles are lower for land rovers than they are for patrols and cruisers. As a result of this the 12k budget will buy a crappier condition patrol than a disco of the same age, simply because the patrols hold their value. Or if you looked for one in the same condition the patrol would be older than the disco.

In the end either truck is a good choice, the disco will be more comfortable, i have ridden in a mates GQ and it was a rough as guts to ride in compared to the disco (not sure if this is representative of all GQ's though), the GQ is slightly more roomy though, and probably the better choice if he has a large family who likes to take lots of gear away with them. The disco and the patrol will be easy and simple to work on, the disco will have more power (holding 100 on the highway wise) than a 2.8L patrol of any vintage, will use less fuel and the motors are more useable off road. In low range the Tdi has not turbo lag at all, well mine doesnt.

Hope this helps. Matt

just bear in mind my comments above in that thread Simon linked to refer to the TB42, TD42 and TD42T engines.
I've never had anything to do with the RD28 and I've always been advised to keep away from them, but it could be just that they don't have enough grunt for the big Nissan, but it should be smooth being a six cylinder.

The ZD30 in the GU is a good engine..........











...for a hand grenade

Originally Posted by Ace

.

<snip>, the disco will be more comfortable, i have ridden in a mates GQ and it was a rough as guts to ride in compared to the disco (not sure if this is representative of all GQ's though), the GQ is slightly more roomy though, and probably the better choice if he has a large family <snip>

Hope this helps. Matt

both GQ's and GU's ride quality is crap compared to virtually any Land Rover of the same vintage, but it's only springs and shocks so can be improved out of sight if someone knows what they are doing.

I find Nissan steering weight too light by half, it's over assisted to buggery, but most people prefer that. Affecting it is the basic wheel alignment too. Some Patrols chew out front tyres at a ravenous rate. Companies like Narrellan Truck Align know how to fix this relatively easily with eccentric shims in the swivels (reduce positive camber to 0* or thereabouts and increase castor ) but it still costs extra $$
Patrol seats aren't the most comfortable either, with GQ's being really bad.

I find the lack of front end bump travel in the Patrol frustrating, too. Easy enough to fix with a lift, but you look at the buggers and they look nice and tall at stock ride height, but they are actually riding/crashing into the bump stops all the time just driving on bitumen roads.

Originally Posted by rick130

just bear in mind my comments above in that thread Simon linked to refer to the TB42, TD42 and TD42T engines.
I've never had anything to do with the RD28 and I've always been advised to keep away from them, but it could be just that they don't have enough grunt for the big Nissan, but it should be smooth being a six cylinder.

The ZD30 in the GU is a good engine..........

...for a hand grenade

I have a mate with a 2.8L TD GU patrol and whilst the GU is a top truck the 2.8L engine, which is more reliable than the 3.0L, is not powerful enough for a big truck like the patrol. He has had alot of problems with his, mainly injector pump issues. But off road he really needs to work the throttle to keep the motor in the useable rev range. The 3.0L is a good engine with plenty of power, but their reliability lets them down, and they arent worth the risk, especially in the older versions. Matt